Too old, too fat?

[WoofWoofMooWoof]

I need somewhere to rant. I went for a job interview today at my DC's school - they know me there. I do what I can to help the school out whenever I am able. It is an Ofsted outstanding school and I've always had the biggest respect for the teachers there.

There are two positions and they only interviewed three people. It was an 'interview day' where we had a tour of the school, met the team etc, and were then interviewed separately. The whole thing took three hours. Me and another lady did the interview day together and the third lady was interviewed later, after school, so I didn't get to meet her. The other lady and I had quite a bit of time alone together in the staff room and we chatted a lot. She owned a restaurant which she sold to open a wine bar, and she only wanted the job so she wouldn't be bored during the day when the bar isn't open. She's never even been to the school before. I am a single mother desperate to find a job so I can feed my kids who are pupils at the school.

However, I am 51 and fat, and she's in her 40s, pretty and slender.

I thought the interview went very well (despite me having bad side effects from my second Covid booster earlier in the week).

Got a phone call from the head teacher this evening saying that I am employable, but I was unsuccessful because the other candidates were stronger and had experience working in a school. This despite the fact that I have 32 years admin experience and the other lady owns a bloody wine bar!

AIBU to be totally pissed off at him blatantly lying to me? To me it's very obvious they've decided to hire the younger, prettier model?

AIBU to have lost all respect for the school and the head?

As a Governor I have been involved in countless interviews for posts. It is highly unlikely that you did not get the job because of your age and weight.

I wore a smart black blouse with smart trousers and a smart cardigan. The other lady was wearing a loose flowing blouse with trousers.

Why would they want to give a job to someone who wasn't going to as good at it though?

I could understand more if this was some gross PA situation, where a letchy guy wanted a young pretty woman working directly for him, but it's just a job in a school.

I think possibly he was just trying to give feedback without causing offense, especially given you're already very involved with the school.

I am sorry though - it really sucks when you're turned down after interview

It's just a fact that looks are prioritised.

I can't imagine wanting to work with anyone whose ideas and beliefs are congruent with that statement ^

Since you say you have run teams of people, surely you must realise what a mess any organisation would get into if they honestly employed people for their looks rather than their ability.

It's a very different thing to comment on how difficult it is to recruit successfully. That in the high pressure situation of an interview, it's easier to come over as efficient and effective, if you happen to be slim and pretty.

It is disappointing when you don't get a job you feel you deserve. By all means allow yourself a short time of wallowing in self pity. What matters is how fast you pick yourself up and get back out their. Good luck.

Image is always at the very least a sun conscious factor. The fact you even suggest it was part of the decision is proof people think this way. Have you thought about making some changes? Then you won’t have to suspect this motive in the future

My ex would insist that I'd never get a decent job because I wasn't tall, slender, lightly tanned, natural blonde, blue eyed, had clearly carried babies (the apron) and didn't 'look wealthy'. One of his favourite phrases was 'You look like a barmaid in an old man's pub, whatever you wear'. My height was wrong, my hair was wrong, my build was wrong, my freckles were wrong.

Once I was free of him, I instantly became employable - because I wasn't carrying the weight of his bullshit on his shoulders and in my face.

However, looking at what you have specifically said, being a qualified therapist isn't necessarily great for pastoral roles. You need to be bombproof in that job - and as a therapist, I'm sure you come across as being absolutely lovely, but lovely and kind needs to be scaffolded with cool, calm steel. The emotional toll of pastoral work cannot be underestimated - or the potential risk of it; I've worked with wonderful people who would be distraught at some of the things that are said by parents and how pastoral staff are seen as viable targets/their care for the children is interpreted as a direct attack that is met with absolute fury - even a request to email in notification that a child is going to be absent can unleash Hell in the form of shouting, threats and angry complaints to the Chair of Governors demanding their immediate dismissal.

Somebody who runs a bar is very likely to have that 'nice but solid as a rock' quality. And they have the advantage of not potentially having to deal with very serious situations involving people you know very well or live next door but one to. I wasn't offered a role at my DDs' school - but when the bursar moved to another school that I happened to apply to, she was the person who gave me my first job in education, despite never employing me at the primary.

Hand on heart - yes I do.

A school would only employ based in the interview scores. So whatever the other woman said about why she wanted the job outside the interview, what she said when she was in there is what counts. You said yourself you had brain fog so the likelihood is you didn't perform as well as the others, nothing to do with looks. Yabu.

Sorry to hear you didn't get the job.
I've interviewed people for jobs before and on one occasion, there was nothing to choose between two candidates. They were both existing employees wanting to move to our part of the country, although it would also be a promotion for both of them. .
The deciding factor was their sick records. There was a marked difference and we chose the one who'd likely go sick less often. You've mentioned your weight being caused by other reasons, not overeating. If they picked up on that or perceived as a red flag, it would make a big difference.
Other factors could be how well they thought you'd fit with the existing team.
Lack of experience in candidates isn't always a bar if they show potential. And with so much experience on your part, could you have given them the impression that things would be done your way as it's the best way? Not necessarily what they were looking for.

Your are perfectly entitled to that opinion

Exactly, same here.

It's ridiculous and even more so since the OP says the school is outstanding.

Does she think being young, slim and pretty is part of OFSTED criteria? 🙄

I think you are not necessarily wrong in part. I think appearance can help people get jobs and other opportunities. People who are polished also tend to have plenty of confidence. This also helps them. It is often an unconscious bias thing. Whatever, you need to decide what to do about it. First stop helping out there. This won't get you a job there necessarily. Apply elsewhere.

@WoofWoofMooWoof You aren't really the best judge of how you come across to others.

This is something on which you need feedback from your friends or former colleagues.

No one sees themselves as other people do.

I'm surprised you answered the poster with a 'Yes I do'.

Most people would say they hoped they do, or they try to be.

I hate to say it but you seem very sure of your own social skills, yet there is something about your performance at interviews that appears to be a negative.

You have to try to find out what.

Having worked in schools my bet would be you’re not someone who can be moulded and you were too overqualified. They like yes people and younger people fit that bill.

sadly I know someone in recruitment and they have told me previously this does happen, obviously it affect her as she is trying to place the best candidate for the job and not the size or shape - Im really sorry and not wanting to make ou feel worse but it is often the truth.

Shame is the lady with the wine bar should be flat out working, seems odd that they have free time to take another job...

You have no idea about the other woman's employment history. She runs a wine bar now but she might have worked in schools before. You just don't know. You didn't have enough time to get her entire life history.

It's unlikely that you didn't get the job because you are "old and fat". Perhaps you did not present well - you said yourself you had "brain fog". And you turned up to the interview and told them you were ill due to the Covid vaccine which might have made them thing "oh dear, this one's going to be ill regularly. Possibly hypochondriac". I know that's unfair - especially as it was a vaccine reaction but even so, that's what people think.
Wine bar woman went into interview full of confidence, looked healthy, answered the questions. You went in under the weather, probably didn't perform to your best, looked like a potentially "sickly" type and therefore didn't score as well as the other two women.

If the role had been in some hip PR agency or something then maybe you'd have a point that they'd gone for the younger candidate.

In a school office? I highly doubt it. The job will have gone to the person most qualified.

I do think given your replies on here that perhaps you don't come across as well IRL as you think?

This did make me giggle!

I have heard of unconscious bias towards overweight people just like I know my ex colleagues husband would never have employed a woman who was of childbearing years at his small firm he said so when a bit drunk on a works night out.

Research has been carried out with exact CV’s one with an English name such as John Smith and one with a foreign sounding name and the foreign sounding name doesn’t get a look in but the English name gets an interview. Many people have prejudices but many also have unconscious bias and may not be aware they are doing it. The result is however still the same.

You do seem massively chippy about it whether this is justified I don’t know. However people with chips on their shoulder often have a bit of a negative demeanour and can come across quite badly. For instance someone who is annoyed and someone who is not can say exactly the same sentence but the inflection and presentation is very different.

You need to work on your internal anger and I would say at size 26 you are at genuine risk of type 2 diabetes.

Feel free. I'm losing track of all your qualifications, so many are being added to the thread.

Its no secret that appearance can affect recruitment. That does not mean you were rejected for being fat. The way you interact on this thread would make me hesitate to employ you in a role where communication was a key skill.

My last interview for promotion at a school 'We're looking for somebody who can think for themselves'.

My answer 'Do you realise just how much trouble I've got into in my life from thinking for myself?'.

Result: Laughter. And promotion.

I'm "old and fat" (🙄) and have been offered three good jobs in my 50s. Interestingly in my office the most recent three "newbies" are all older and fatter than me. Go figure.

Good luck with your job hunting.

Sorry you didn’t get the job, as you sound well qualified. I wonder if being unwell on the day made you seem less alert and competent than you would normally be?

Better luck next time.

If you have extensive programming skills then it seems a mistake to apply for low paid school roles.

What about doing a returnship instead? www.techuk.org/what-we-deliver/returners-hub/dedicated-tech-returner-programmes.html

Unconscious bias is definitely a factor when forming an opinion about candidates based solely on first impressions. But I don’t believe for a moment it would extend to appointing the younger, slimmer person unless she was the one who demonstrated she was more suitable and interviewed well.

I get involved in recruitment and interviewing on local government. The process now is so rigorous and fair.

2 candidates would have to score completely equally in all areas before we’d go for the one who just came across better.