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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

568 replies

whatatanker · 07/10/2022 17:49

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

OP posts:
x2boys · 12/10/2022 08:41

BackOnceAgainWith · 11/10/2022 16:48

I have a 3 year old in a similar boat. hasn't been asked to leave but called in for two meetings. They just seem to have a real issue with him. Every day they send me negative stuff about him talking, singing, pushing toys off the table etc but they don't seem to have any strategies. They keep saying "what should we do" and now they're starting sending me emails saying "they don't have capacity to deal with it" and want SEN to come in and observe. Feel totally overwhelmed. I hate to think of them hating him. This thread is so helpful

This is actually a good thing they want someone to come into observe him ,my child has always been in a special school, his SEN primary school, has an outreach service that go out to mainstream schools to observe children and help school staff to put in strategies to manage challenging behaviour etc ,they have a far greater understanding of SEN and or challenging behaviour than staff in mainstream in the main.

MeandT · 12/10/2022 10:06

In my last post I gave some examples of scenarios in which a frustrated 4 year old MIGHT bite once in the classroom (and not suggesting that this is acceptable, but mentioning the action path the DfE requires the school to take in response).

Not wishing to besmirch the OP's good name, as the potential scenario below is entirely different from her DS' circumstances, but what IF another little Johnnie who bit once in September of Year R did it because Dad's gone, Mum's an addict, and he hasn't been fed all weekend?

There are multiple posters on here baying for him to be excluded if their child was hurt once, as he's not safe to be around and it might happen again. So if the teacher is "clueless resistant and pathetic" (not sure the anagram would get through mumsnet's filters) and goes along with this, who identifies that he is literally then being sent to his own death at home, once he's excluded from school?

We see this on the front pages and weep that social services aren't on it, but here in the court of Mumsnet, the 'behaviours must have consequences' crowd are happy to kick him out to his fate without even bothering to have a conversation with him about what's going on at home to help him help himself!

A GOOD Year R teacher would notice that the occasion he bit a TA was when they took the plastic burger from the play cafe out of his mouth; his pushing only occurs when he's trying to get to the front of the lunch queue; he hit the child beside him when they took his picture of chicken and peas and carrots and scribbled on it because they don't like peas; and that he always struggles to concentrate and puts his head on the table on a Monday morning, but funnily enough after lunch he perks up a bit.

And a GOOD Year R teacher would join the dots and start a conversation with him about food, and maybe take him to the ELSA space next Monday morning (with a bacon butty from breakfast club or a cereal bar available) and actually manage to get to the bottom of what was going on at home and get some appropriate intervention going right away. And by May he's in a foster home and the star academic pupil and winning prizes for his (not just food related) art? Or maybe he's just not malnourished any more and Mum is off the junk. That's a big enough win in itself isn't it? And he hasn't pushed, hit or bitten ANYONE since September.

If the teacher had been hard in the 'behaviours have consequences' camp and not paying attention to any of the WHY, he'd be in the corner, banging his head against the wall wondering why no-one was helping him; getting in ever more trouble for nicking food from other kids' lunch boxes; being excluded from party invites & playground groups as the naughty/dangerous one. But which kid actually NEEDS more support?

Please let's not forget to look at the reasons WHY unacceptable behaviour has happened.

No-one should deny them that opportunity to receive help for their needs, or jump to excluding 4 year olds as the right natural conclusion for every behavioural problem!

MeandT · 12/10/2022 10:17

And furthermore, to be clear, I'm not some softy, let-the-kids-run-riot parent. But 'behaviours have consequences' only ACTUALLY works if a child is neurotypical and their executive brain function and delayed gratification centres are working properly.

I can say to my child 'you need to take a deep breath, not let the the kid that pinched your pencil for the 5th time today wind you up, and put your hand up and ask the teacher nicely for another pencil and explain why'. But a child with ASD might just thump the other kid and take it back, even when Mum at home is saying exactly the same as me (plus 'you can't hit people, it's not acceptable' EVERY. SINGLE. NIGHT.) But just not getting through, because in those moments, the overwhelm is instantaneous.

I can say to my child 'it's really important that you listen to the teacher at the start of story writing because they'll tell you what they want you to write/draw about, and they've told me twice now you've not written anything after 20 minutes'. The parent of an ADHD child can say the same thing and the kid DESPERATELY wants to do what the teacher wants. But there's a man in the playground up a ladder, and then Class 2X went down the corridor to PE and all he could hear was them talking about playing dodgeball, and now all he wants to do is go and play dodgeball, so he gets out of his seat to follow the children in the corridor and....

Now this might be the 10th indication since starting in September that little Johnnie has some attention issues. But if little Katie in the same class had type 1 diabetes and went down like a sack of potatoes in PE in week 3 and had to go off in an ambulance because her body doesn't make any insulin, you can guarantee she'd have a diagnosis, and medication and as much help as she needed pricking her finger and dripping blood onto the paper every lunchtime - well before Christmas.

But poor disruptive little Johnnie, he can't sit still, and he doesn't listen properly, and he fell out with the red table (where the sunlight through the corner window makes him squint in one eye at 2.55 in September and thumped his neighbour to shove up so he can shuffle out of it), then at 2.35 a couple of weeks later, then he can't even make it to 2.15 without squirming and putting his chair one centimetre away from his neighbour by half term). Then in November he fell out with blue table after he was moved there, because one of the kids always taps their pencil on the desk while the teacher is talking and it's not loud enough for her to hear, but he's so distracted he can't take in a single word she's said.

And a GOOD Year R teacher will ask him what's wrong, and confirm there are no troubling home circumstances, and hear that Mum has noticed he is fine concentrating for hours on building lego on his own or with friends, but when they go out to a busy pub for lunch with family, he's just away with the fairies the whole time and never answers any questions from Granny, so Granny thinks he's rude, even though he clearly loves her to bits & talks to her very nicely at her house.

And so teacher pays more attention to WHEN he's twitchy and interfering with other children, and WHEN he's not following instructions and starts writing it down, and calls him out when she sees frustration in November and there's no more hitting; then the SENCO comes and observes; and by February the beginnings of an ADHD referral are coming together. And Mum & Dad are asked to fill out a behaviour diary. And by November of Year 1 he gets an assessment with CAMHS. And the school is working through some management plans with him to try to help his focus. But by the time he starts a titration trial for medication it's June of Year 1, he's already fallen far behind his peers & has produced less than 1/5th of the written work (even though he's clearly sharp & his phonics when they stand up & do sound actions is spot on).

But his body doesn't produce dopamine, so his brain can't screen out peripheral activity that the other children can easily identify as trivial and ignore, so following what the teacher says when they are all sat down & supposed to be still & concentrating is LITERALLY the hardest task in the world for him in a busy & distracting school environment.

And his treatment for a chemical his body can't produce took 5 and a half terms longer than diabetic Katie to diagnose & receive trial medication for, because you can measure blood sugar with a drop of blood on a bit of paper, but you can't squeeze your brain to measure dopamine.

And the 'behaviours have consequences' teacher would have him sat on his own table for most of Year R, so he doesn't interfere with other kids (or get a nudge from them to say 'hey, we're supposed to be doing this') and hasn't even clocked (or care, because at least he's quiet?) that he still spends 80% of his time looking at the alphabet frieze above the corridor window, so he's still not making the progress he could be.

And he'd be utterly behind and still undiagnosed by Year 4 if he had a string of these kind of teachers. And his Mum would be at her wit's end, even if she did manage to get through that 'no biting, no hitting' was an absolutely golden, unbreakable rule - the same as it was at nursery, no matter how many other rules were different - and after the first half term of Year R it never happened again.

So please be careful in who you're prepared to write off at such a tender age! I understand everyone's first instinct is to protect their own child - but every school should be paying attention to HOW and WHY incidents have occurred to fast track an appropriate response plan & prevent repeats. And for children who have special educational needs, or difficult home lives, school is literally the only place some of these issues will surface or can be addressed promptly.

It is just as important that the 28 or 29 other neurotypical children in an average classroom understand that being autistic, or having ADHD, or missing an arm, or wearing hearing aids, or Daddy dying from cancer, or managing Type 1 diabetes, or whatever, can make life harder (WITHOUT endorsing biting or hitting). Sometimes for a little while, sometimes forever.

But with the right support, a struggling, overwhelmed 4 year old can turn into a self-regulating 14 year old with a set of strategies they know they can reliably apply to help themselves, can turn into a functional member of society that those same neurotypical children can work with, and learn FROM, as an adult.

Some of the posters here might do well to model that to their children, instead of demanding the ejection of a
four year old, one-occasion, biter!

user29 · 12/10/2022 10:20

A bite or kick from an overwhelmed 4 year old is NOT the same as 'terrorising the classroom
Isn't it? A 4 year old seems small and weak to you as an adult, but not to another 4 year old whk is the same size.It is like one of us being caged in the samecroom as a volatile adult who might hit or bite you if you looked at him wrong.I would find that terrifying and very stressful yo cope with day in day out.

MeandT · 12/10/2022 10:30

@user29 have a read of my last 2 posts and tell me why a one occasion biter is 'terrorising the classroom'? The point is that the school has to figure out the reason for the behaviour the FIRST time it happens, and respond appropriately, and prevent it from happening again (with input from parents).

Educational professionals helping developing 4 year olds to settle into school and identify any additional learning needs is the entire point of Year R. We need to ensure schools have enough funding to respond when a child does bite once though.

Cluelessat33 · 12/10/2022 13:36

I have to be honest, if there were a child hitting and biting my child I'd be pretty livid as a parent and would want that child removed from the situation. No other child should have to suffer as a result of other childrens behaviours, surely you can see that. This isn't jyst a case of naughty behaviour, this is violence towards peers and isn't acceptable.

My child started school in September as well. She is q gentle child, who gets on well with her peers, and I was shocked a week or so ago to find out she had been stabbed in the arm with a pencil on purpose, by a boy in her class. This behaviour upset and totally bemused her. She jyst didn't understand it. How damaging is that sort of behaviour to their peers,

Clearly there is more at play here than a simple case of naughty behaviour. A child has a right to an education. But a school would not permanently remove a child, certainly not such a young child after such a short period of time, if they did not have serious cause for concern, possibly in this case, concern for the safety and wellbeing of the other children in their care. They would not exclude a child without engaging extensively with the parents. I feel a lot of information is missing here.

Thatsnotmycar · 12/10/2022 14:01

Cluelessat33 · 12/10/2022 13:36

I have to be honest, if there were a child hitting and biting my child I'd be pretty livid as a parent and would want that child removed from the situation. No other child should have to suffer as a result of other childrens behaviours, surely you can see that. This isn't jyst a case of naughty behaviour, this is violence towards peers and isn't acceptable.

My child started school in September as well. She is q gentle child, who gets on well with her peers, and I was shocked a week or so ago to find out she had been stabbed in the arm with a pencil on purpose, by a boy in her class. This behaviour upset and totally bemused her. She jyst didn't understand it. How damaging is that sort of behaviour to their peers,

Clearly there is more at play here than a simple case of naughty behaviour. A child has a right to an education. But a school would not permanently remove a child, certainly not such a young child after such a short period of time, if they did not have serious cause for concern, possibly in this case, concern for the safety and wellbeing of the other children in their care. They would not exclude a child without engaging extensively with the parents. I feel a lot of information is missing here.

No one has said the behaviour is acceptable, but the school must follow correct procedure, which they haven’t in this case. You clearly have very little experience of how some schools treat pupils with SEN if you think schools don’t permanently exclude far too quickly without following the correct procedures or attempt to off roll.

drspouse · 12/10/2022 14:51

Thank you @MeandT for some amazing posts.

They would not exclude a child without engaging extensively with the parents.
It depends what you mean by engaging.
If you mean "telling the parents to tell the child not to do something he really can't help, when the parents aren't there, but he's being restrained by 4 adults" then yes, the school that PEx my DS did that.
But if you mean "taking suggestions from the parents that might work, and following through on them consistently for more than a couple of days", not so much.

Johnnysgirl · 12/10/2022 14:58

drspouse · 12/10/2022 14:51

Thank you @MeandT for some amazing posts.

They would not exclude a child without engaging extensively with the parents.
It depends what you mean by engaging.
If you mean "telling the parents to tell the child not to do something he really can't help, when the parents aren't there, but he's being restrained by 4 adults" then yes, the school that PEx my DS did that.
But if you mean "taking suggestions from the parents that might work, and following through on them consistently for more than a couple of days", not so much.

Do you think it was fair on anybody around them that your child needed to be restrained by 4 adults?
What would your solution have been to keep them in a mainstream school?

ThePenOfMyAunt · 12/10/2022 15:15

Johnnysgirl · 12/10/2022 14:58

Do you think it was fair on anybody around them that your child needed to be restrained by 4 adults?
What would your solution have been to keep them in a mainstream school?

All the more reason not to put the child in to a trigger situation, and perhaps take advice on how to avoid them, by the people who know the child the best....

MrsKeats · 12/10/2022 15:24

You have no idea how your child acts in the classroom as you aren't there.

Morph22010 · 12/10/2022 16:14

Johnnysgirl · 12/10/2022 14:58

Do you think it was fair on anybody around them that your child needed to be restrained by 4 adults?
What would your solution have been to keep them in a mainstream school?

Well maybe her solution would have been to move them to a specialist school but unfortunately it’s not a choice parents get despite what people with no experience of the sen system seem to think

HereForAdvice95 · 12/10/2022 17:09

I’m sorry but after watching a member of my own immediate family go through hell with the kids in her class the school are not being unreasonable. It’s not the school’s responsibility to parent your child it’s your own - and I genuinely don’t mean that in an arsehole way. You know his behaviour is bad and yes you’ve tried things but you also sound a bit like you’ve given up because they’ve not worked and now the school are having to deal with the aftermath. School has a responsibility to keep other pupils safe and the other pupils also have a right to be able to come into school and have the opportunity to learn - this sounds like such a disruptive situation and maybe your son would be better in another setting.

Triplecarbs · 12/10/2022 17:14

I can’t get over some of the stuff I’ve read on here! No wonder teachers are leaving in their droves, having to put up with behaviours like this, day in day out, and it becoming more normalised all the time.

My Friends DD has just accepted a contract to work for two years in Dubai.

Her partner is teaching over there.
They had both only been teaching three years in the uk and felt absolutely broken by the education system here.

Feral kids as young as 5 running rings around teachers , and no consequences for violent behaviour were the norm in both of their schools.
Why anyone would train to be a teacher in the UK is beyond me!

TugboatAnnie · 12/10/2022 18:23

Has op been back and clarified the meaning of what was said by the teacher and what the ht's own opinion is?

Thatsnotmycar · 12/10/2022 19:07

HereForAdvice95 · 12/10/2022 17:09

I’m sorry but after watching a member of my own immediate family go through hell with the kids in her class the school are not being unreasonable. It’s not the school’s responsibility to parent your child it’s your own - and I genuinely don’t mean that in an arsehole way. You know his behaviour is bad and yes you’ve tried things but you also sound a bit like you’ve given up because they’ve not worked and now the school are having to deal with the aftermath. School has a responsibility to keep other pupils safe and the other pupils also have a right to be able to come into school and have the opportunity to learn - this sounds like such a disruptive situation and maybe your son would be better in another setting.

The school also has a responsibility to follow due process and not act unlawfully…

What other setting do you suggest and how do you suggest OP magics that up?

Triplecarbs · 12/10/2022 20:50

@MeandT None of these scenarios that you have put forward, and which may or may not be true, will be in the forefront of the parent who is seeing their child being bullied or hit on a regular basis, nor should it be!
Quite the contrary, there will be anger and resentment by parents about thir kids having their lessons disrupted regularly by ‘troubled’ children!
you can rant as much s you like, but it’s human nature to protect our own!
Their concern will be their child!!!

Also, We’ve got to a preposterous situation in this country whereby teachers are supposed to be bloody social workers.

It doesn’t happen in other countries, and children there are much better for it!

MeandT · 12/10/2022 22:01

I think the point @Triplecarbs is that no child should be experiencing any agressive behaviour on a 'regular basis'. But there just aren't enough specialists available to resolve the behaviours in the timeframe that should be possible.

Sadly, I agree the system is broken - although not necessarily for quite the same reasons. Labour closed lots of specialist schools and focused on integrating functional SEN children into mainstream. David Cameron objected to this in opposition as shadow Education Secretary, yet as PM, took the massive savings, didn't reopen any, then ripped the heart out of the funding that supported being able to integrate children in mainstream.

Now teachers have ridiculous situations where simple one-offs early in Year R cannot be supported by additional TAs, because the head had to fire them all to keep the lights on. And local authorities are rationing support because their budgets have been slashed. The shortfall in SEN funding nationally is now over £2bn a year. So despite an uptick in children presenting with a lack of socialisation skills & various other issues since lockdown, there's not support available in a useful timeframe for the class teacher.

Add to this the ridiculous focus on a very academic Year R, even after this year's intake has lived over half their lives in a global pandemic, and you can see why it's not working any more. If ever there was a time to sack off the whiteboard & let the 4 year olds learn more based on play, movement, healthy interaction habits with their peers, and ensuring they all have the skills to enjoy and succeed at school, it is now!

And that would include teaching the neurotypical ones empathy, understanding of difference, and kindness - as well as ensuring the behaviour of those with special educational needs doesn't put those children at physical risk.

Or of course, if exclusion without anywhere else to go is the preferred course of action, the DfE could always hand the £29k direct to the parent to sort out their own child's schooling, if they are just going to wash their hands of it?

CrookCrane · 12/10/2022 23:58

MeandT · 12/10/2022 22:01

I think the point @Triplecarbs is that no child should be experiencing any agressive behaviour on a 'regular basis'. But there just aren't enough specialists available to resolve the behaviours in the timeframe that should be possible.

Sadly, I agree the system is broken - although not necessarily for quite the same reasons. Labour closed lots of specialist schools and focused on integrating functional SEN children into mainstream. David Cameron objected to this in opposition as shadow Education Secretary, yet as PM, took the massive savings, didn't reopen any, then ripped the heart out of the funding that supported being able to integrate children in mainstream.

Now teachers have ridiculous situations where simple one-offs early in Year R cannot be supported by additional TAs, because the head had to fire them all to keep the lights on. And local authorities are rationing support because their budgets have been slashed. The shortfall in SEN funding nationally is now over £2bn a year. So despite an uptick in children presenting with a lack of socialisation skills & various other issues since lockdown, there's not support available in a useful timeframe for the class teacher.

Add to this the ridiculous focus on a very academic Year R, even after this year's intake has lived over half their lives in a global pandemic, and you can see why it's not working any more. If ever there was a time to sack off the whiteboard & let the 4 year olds learn more based on play, movement, healthy interaction habits with their peers, and ensuring they all have the skills to enjoy and succeed at school, it is now!

And that would include teaching the neurotypical ones empathy, understanding of difference, and kindness - as well as ensuring the behaviour of those with special educational needs doesn't put those children at physical risk.

Or of course, if exclusion without anywhere else to go is the preferred course of action, the DfE could always hand the £29k direct to the parent to sort out their own child's schooling, if they are just going to wash their hands of it?

You talk a hell of a lot of sense! I’m so grateful that my DC’s school can still afford multiple TA’s in the Reception class and most years seem to have 1 or 2 TA’s.

drspouse · 13/10/2022 09:44

Johnnysgirl · 12/10/2022 14:58

Do you think it was fair on anybody around them that your child needed to be restrained by 4 adults?
What would your solution have been to keep them in a mainstream school?

He didn't need to be restrained by four adults. He needed to be let out to run around outside and/or allowed a place to hide where he wasn't constantly being told "you can't hide there" or having things taken away from him as punishment for hiding (which was his perfectly safe and calm response to feeling unsafe). He needed a consistent and sensitive TA not 5 different adults per week. He needed the consistent and sensitive TA who applied for the job of his permanent TA to be interviewed for it, not rejected because they had already decided they wanted rid of him. The tribunal found them guilty of disability discrimination because they were not acting lawfully.

We were told approximately 7 million times we needed to consider specialist school. Every time we said "great, which ones do you recommend" and were told they had no idea and couldn't help us look.

He is now in a specialist school but this is NOT the happy ending for anyone. He's in a 10-16 school but he's the 10 year old and this means he's a very immature primary school child who still watches Patchwork Pals, in with teenagers. He's so far been allowed to play a shooting game on the class computer, other boys have been allowed to play first person shooter games ditto, one of the teenagers he shares a taxi with has threatened to tickle him (which is either VERY age inappropriate or a pointer to possible sexual abuse), and he's being given year 3 Maths when we are doing year 6 work with him at home. I could go on.

Anothermother3 · 14/10/2022 12:25

This thread is so upsetting 😢 but I think @whatatanker apart from some very thoughtful informed posts from @MeandT and a few others you might be better off with the SN boards. Children should be kept safe but that is actually down to school and their safeguarding responsibilities not excluding children. Of course it’s about resources and appropriate interventions which are increasingly difficult to access. Ups killing staff, having TA support and holding for other children and parents to be open to greater understanding is key. That’s why this thread is so sad. So much judgement so little understanding. Someone said the OP had given up on parenting her child but the thing with kids with additional needs is that the usual ‘good enough’ parenting isn’t enough you need to be a super parent and so those parents commenting on how @whatatanker has ‘given up’ are ill informed at best and probably putting in less parenting effort because ‘good enough’ is ‘good enough’. Sometimes (in my opinion) a specialist setting is better able to meet some Children’s needs but not just any setting and not without identifying why that might be and understanding the needs and accommodations already tried and why they’re not sufficient. That’s the first step to evidencing this need anyway.

Honestly we are talking about reception children. Of course I don’t want my children hurt or hurting anyone but learning emotional literacy, boundaries and emotional regulation and about social communication difficulties/other differences within that (and how that looks for different people) will be to everyone’s benefit. No one is condoning children hurting other children but as @drspouse has highlighted much of the escalation is due to not recognising triggers and having proactive as well as reactive strategies. The system around the child so often exacerbates this as highlighted.

BobbysGirly · 14/10/2022 18:52

My 5 year old grandson had a chunk bitten out of his cheek by a child, during his first two weeks in reception class. His mother was outraged by the schools decision to exclude him. My GS wasn’t the only one to receive permanent scars from the child’s behaviour.

OP how would you feel if your child suffered physical harm from the behaviour of a classmate?

Avidreader69 · 14/10/2022 19:30

MeandT · 12/10/2022 10:06

In my last post I gave some examples of scenarios in which a frustrated 4 year old MIGHT bite once in the classroom (and not suggesting that this is acceptable, but mentioning the action path the DfE requires the school to take in response).

Not wishing to besmirch the OP's good name, as the potential scenario below is entirely different from her DS' circumstances, but what IF another little Johnnie who bit once in September of Year R did it because Dad's gone, Mum's an addict, and he hasn't been fed all weekend?

There are multiple posters on here baying for him to be excluded if their child was hurt once, as he's not safe to be around and it might happen again. So if the teacher is "clueless resistant and pathetic" (not sure the anagram would get through mumsnet's filters) and goes along with this, who identifies that he is literally then being sent to his own death at home, once he's excluded from school?

We see this on the front pages and weep that social services aren't on it, but here in the court of Mumsnet, the 'behaviours must have consequences' crowd are happy to kick him out to his fate without even bothering to have a conversation with him about what's going on at home to help him help himself!

A GOOD Year R teacher would notice that the occasion he bit a TA was when they took the plastic burger from the play cafe out of his mouth; his pushing only occurs when he's trying to get to the front of the lunch queue; he hit the child beside him when they took his picture of chicken and peas and carrots and scribbled on it because they don't like peas; and that he always struggles to concentrate and puts his head on the table on a Monday morning, but funnily enough after lunch he perks up a bit.

And a GOOD Year R teacher would join the dots and start a conversation with him about food, and maybe take him to the ELSA space next Monday morning (with a bacon butty from breakfast club or a cereal bar available) and actually manage to get to the bottom of what was going on at home and get some appropriate intervention going right away. And by May he's in a foster home and the star academic pupil and winning prizes for his (not just food related) art? Or maybe he's just not malnourished any more and Mum is off the junk. That's a big enough win in itself isn't it? And he hasn't pushed, hit or bitten ANYONE since September.

If the teacher had been hard in the 'behaviours have consequences' camp and not paying attention to any of the WHY, he'd be in the corner, banging his head against the wall wondering why no-one was helping him; getting in ever more trouble for nicking food from other kids' lunch boxes; being excluded from party invites & playground groups as the naughty/dangerous one. But which kid actually NEEDS more support?

Please let's not forget to look at the reasons WHY unacceptable behaviour has happened.

No-one should deny them that opportunity to receive help for their needs, or jump to excluding 4 year olds as the right natural conclusion for every behavioural problem!

You don't want a teacher here, you want someone on hand who's noticing every tiny movement of a lively four year old, someone who has exceptional analytical skills, plus an extraordinary ability to defuse a situation before it happens. Sorry but I don't think such a combination exists. You seem extremely good at imagining scenarios which may have nothing whatsoever to do with the child in question.

Triplecarbs · 14/10/2022 22:45

@BobbysGirly That’s shocking for your GS. Good that the school excluded the culprit.
This should happen more often!

Triplecarbs · 14/10/2022 22:49

@MeandT Crikey, you really have an overactive imagination!!
All these grandiose scenarios. 😀
you dont live in the real world!

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