To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

I teach in early years. I've never heard of a child being excluded at all at that age let alone permanently. I would arrange a meeting with the SENCO to see how his nedds are being met and put a plan into action. It may be a case that it isn't the right school for him

It's a difficult one as I would say that there isn't and shouldn't be a younger age limit for exclusion from a school as it is a tool that sometimes needs to be used to protect other children and their teachers, but equally in your specific case it sounds like on the face of it there's no need for the school to even be thinking about excluding your 4 year old son. I would say we've been on the other side of this though, when my son was getting punched in the face daily by a boy in his class. I would have gladly seen that boy excluded but instead our (small, rural, rather posh area) school did bugger all to stop it until I intervened and got quite uncharacteristically cross with the teacher. 'Hitting' can mean lots of different things as with my son that is what was being written in their incident book, but I think hitting another child on the arm is very different to a forceful punch to the face and it should be recorded accurately. Do you know what end of the scale your son's violence to his classmates is? Is he hitting or punching? With the biting, I think that's rare but not unheard of in reception and as it was only once it doesn't seem like it should be a concern.

We still have the awful punchy boy in our school - he doesn't have SEN, he is just badly behaved with no boundaries at home (unlike your son) and to be frank I think most of the parents would be glad to see the back of him now as he has hurt most of the children in the school, however the school continue to do very little. I have only known one child be excluded and while he was also a violent child at times he was actually excluded for doing something different in the end (having gone right through the school bullying and hurting other children).

If I were you I would ask for a meeting with the head teacher to talk through the issues but I'd be very surprised if they really were thinking about excluding your son. But it's good that they are telling you what he's done so you can address the behaviour as well as the school addressing it. At our school half the problem is that the school never tell the parents of bullies so their behaviour carries on far longer than it would otherwise.

my son was very difficult to manage in his first year of school.

He was diagnosed with autism at age 5 - we had not noticed he had anything up until he started school.

They gave him a special needs assistant (we are in Ireland). He is 12 now and has settled down - he has been taught strategies to manage his emotions when he gets overwhelmed. He enjoys school now and is doing well. If they had decided to exclude him at age 5 I’d hate to think how he’d be now.

hope you’re ok - and i remember those days when my son was 5 as being full of worry & stress!

Please try to get him assessed as soon as possible by CAMHS Can he hear and see okay With CAMHS I presume there will be a long wait but go to your doctor Have you tried your Health Visitor The more he misses school he will fall behind in his education Nursery failed him and should have got him seen Good luck I spent years getting my son diagnosed when ADHD was not recognised nor Dyspraxia Bully of a Comprehensive Headmaster he spent time at home to catch up He feels a failure now aged 36

Hi Op, In a similar boat to yourself, however, 5 weeks into my son's reception year, his school excluded him for 0.5 days due to him not coping and having a tantrum - luckily no one was harmed but he refused to cooperate and he wouldnt listen to anyone until i got there. They then referred him for an emergency assessment. The assessment came back in my son's favour stating that his dislike of loud noises and his preferance to play alone is a result of being a "lockdown baby" not getting a chance as a baby to go to stay and play or mother and baby groups like i did with my first 2 boys, my first 2 are so popular and Ive been told a number of times how much of a pleasure they are to teach (aged 14 and 7) However my 4yo Is the opposite to his older siblings - that said, he is an absolute delight at home. At school he screams and throws things and has full on terrible 2's type tantrums which the assessing paediatrician stated is still age appropriate given his lack of engagement with child friendly services such as M&B clubs during lockdown.

School have reduced my sons hours to 1 hour and 15 minutes a day with view to increase him into his routine slowly each week as he begins coping better. I'm lucky our school is so supportive, sounds like your poor child's school are being very unreasonable threatening to permanently exlude without doing any assessment or even thinking about what your child's needs might be. That was the first thing my 4yo's head teacher did so I am sad the same has not been offered to you.

My 4yo is cut from a different cloth, he wears 6yo clothes and is built like a house hence his tantrums being a concern in class because he does not know his own strength. I fully understand and support what School have done and are doing for my mini man. They have given him a 'calm & quiet place' in the form of a den filled with sensory toys and bubbles (which is what works for my child), actually in the classroom, where my boy can go if he is feeling overwhelmed, angry or upset. This is proving to be working as my boy has started to vouluntarily takes himself to his calm corner meaning his tantrums are not as severe and he is able to calm down quicker, minimising risk to other pupils, staff and also himself. School have been so helpful and especially since they know and have taught my other 2 and they know us as a family.

Ask the headteacher for an urgent meeting and recommend they refer your child to SEND service or for an early help assesament - they should have already suggested this!! It can be a lengthy process hence my sons school doing his on an emergency basis to enable him to return to school in a managed way. Your sons school should be trying to find out abit more about your child's likes/dislikes and ways to help him feel more calm instead of being so ridgid!!

If you feel they are being unhelpful and unfair which is what it sounds like to me, you can complain in writing to the head about him/her not giving your child a fair chance, i.e failing to refer him to the Send service or early help, not considering the fact he may have a trait which affects his behaviour (even if you know he has no traits!!) You are basically arguing that your son is being black balled at 5 years old!! How hard would it be moving him to another school with a permanent exlusion on his file only 5 weeks in!! Ask school if they feel that is fair on a 5yo!! Then Contact the department of education once you've done that and tell them your boy is being failed by his school who are being unfair and neglectful, depriving your son of an education and effectively black balling a baby!! 5 is still classed as a toddler according to paediatricians at Addenbrookes Hospital in Cambridge where we live. Sending big hugs and prayers for you and your boy, that you are heard and some support is offered to you both immediately without your boy being further stigmatised, being told he is naughty or whatever they've said to him.

One size does not fit all when it comes to children, so instead of them singling out your poor boy and threatening exclusion, how about they help him to understand his feelings better, give him 121 as someone suggested earlier and support you as a mum so you can work with them for your son. Stay strong OP. It is exhausting to say the least but once a plan is in place for your boy, everyone will have something to work towards.

1. Get meeting asap with head teacher - you want a referal put in for your son immediately (referrals happen quicker if school do it as an emergency)

2.contact DoE - tell them you instigated referrals after school threatened to exclude 5yo permanently without any assessments or support. Elaborate on how this made you feel and fear of trouble reschooling if he is excluded etc

1. Read up on early help and the SEND service so you know what to expect

3.5 see if your school has a behaviour support person, if so request they attend all meetings about your boy (transparency is key)

1. Keep being an amazing mum

Big hugs and good luck OP

Exactly this!! 👆🏾

Why should the other children be terrified of being hurt at school? Get him home schooled whilst you wait for an assessment for him. My son was strangled at school, to the point he had blood blisters on his neck and the school did nothing as the other child had issues at home, I moved my child but I shouldn't have had to! One child should NOT be allowed to ruin school for 29 others

Yeah that's not the way it works 🙄

@Tessabelle74 That’s shocking. Your poor son.
Schools don’t give a stuff. The mantra of inclusion no matter what is deeply embedded in to the education system in this country to the detriment of the majority of children.

You do know that current CAMHS waiting lists are around two years, don't you? Why does this child have to be segregated just because he has a disability? What happened to your child was awful, but seems to have been due to serious failures by his school.

As a teacher, I'm very surprised that you jump straight to saying he should be excluded but don't bat an eyelid that there is "probably nothing" put in place for this child. Are you in the wrong profession?

One hour and fifteen minutes of education a day isn't adequate provision, and your local authority should be filling in any gaps to make up to a full time education.

You've been sold a bit of a dud, OP. Sorry to say.

@Novum Because Tessabelle is concerned about the welfare of her own child. Someone else’s ‘s child is not her concern!

All of those things are the wrong approach.

Firstly they need to speak to the school Sendco about what procedures to follow!

I would raise it with the LA immediately if they are threatening exclusion!! What a way to give up on a child before anything has really been done to help!! :(

Whilst the pupil shouldn’t be on a part time timetable to manage his behaviour, as @ThePenOfMyAunt has posted, the LA don’t have a statutory duty to make alternative provision because the pupil is below CSA, although they can make provision.

@Novum he hasn't got a disability though has he? He has behavioural issues that are causing harm to other children. The school is rightly protecting those children as it's a massive safeguarding issue. The school my son went to had prioritised a child with behavioural issues at the cost of others, not a failing as far as that child's parents was concerned was it? If it was YOUR child getting bitten/ strangled and refusing to go to school because they were scared of another child, would you be so understanding?

Nobody wants their child to be hurt in school.

If my 5 y/o was in that class and being hurt, yes I'd want him excluded. You say it's been going on since your little boy was 2, and I understand the reluctance to label at that age. So many behaviours are on the spectrum of 'normal' (awful word but can't think of a less offensive one to get across what I mean) in toddlers and young children. However, if it's been going on for three years I'd definitely say he needs assessment by an Ed. Psych. A whole range of emotional, behavioural or developmental issues could contribute to his behaviour. Is he like this at home? Have you noticed any triggers for outbursts? It might be an idea to keep a diary of what happens, when, the context etc, as most assessments (eg for ADD, ADHD, ASD) will have questionnaires for parents. Hope you get the help your little boy needs.

THIS

he is only five, and as others have said the school has a duty of care to other children but I would ask them for their policies and procedures so you are clear what they should be doing, what you should be doing and most importantly where you can get support for both your DS and your family.

they are possibly trying to shock you into action if they think you are not taking the situation seriously enough and are possibly in denial about the issues your DS has.

irrespective you should be getting offered support and advice. Good luck

OP’s DS may well be disabled. He seems to meet the Equality Act’s definition (“has a physical or mental impairment and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”) which doesn’t require a diagnosis. He definitely has SEN.

He sounds like a quite normal boy of his age settling into school tbh. I would consider withdrawing him and applying to start him again in reception a year older.

I feel very sorry for you and your son but surprised that you appear to think his behaviour is acceptable at this school. I also don't believe that the school has threatened permanent exclusion on the basis of his striking other children 3 times.

That said, I'm coming from a different perspective. My son was your son, he received his first suspension in his second week in reception, which in his case was the right thing for his peers but the wrong thing for him. He wanted to come home, so he learnt very quickly that to stay at home he should misbehave!

My son wasn't violent towards other children but demanded so much attention that other children were not able to learn. If a there was a duplicate of my son in my daughter's class I would sympathize but equally would have been very unhappy.

Nowadays, and please correct me if I'm incorrect, there are reception classes being led by teachers and perhaps one assistant. Children are at different, social, language, and intellectual levels, staff are required to teach these full classes to a set criteria, with constant testing. To expect them to also teach a child with massive behavioural problems is very simply unacceptable.

My son had severe additional needs, no mainstream school would be able to offer him the support he needed and he was very fortunate to be placed in a special school. As a result he didn't ruin the education of others and equally achieved more than he ever would have in a main stream setting.

Based on the very small amount that we know, perhaps he would be better placed in the special education system.

I’m always astounded with posts like this! If I had a child who was hurting other children and it was obvious the teacher didn’t want him in the classroom because of his behaviour, i I would be thoroughly ashamed, and not looking to blame everyone else!

Sorry, but he really doesn't. It's quite a ridiculous thing to say, tbh, however well meant.

As you should know it's not that easy just getting a place in a specialist setting.