To think that a five year old boy should not be permanently excluded from school?

[whatatanker]

My son has been threatened with permanent exclusion today.

His behaviour is poor, but I have honestly tried so many things - have an older son, who is absolutely delightful and enjoys school.

He is 5 weeks into school in his reception year. He’s emotionally immature and struggles to sit still and has started hurting others in the classroom.

Should this really be happening?

My sons behaviour can erupt, he’s 3 and in school nursery. He kicks and hits when he has sensory overload. What has been done?

1. educational psychologist
2. communication passport
3. positive sensory activities to meet sensory needs and sensory break out room created (which is used for a number of children because its very calming)
4. SALT referral
5. i contacted HV and she went into nursery to asses snd she made referral to paediatrician for behaviour issues and developmental delay

result following interventions:
no hitting or kicking, paeds assessment and referral to neurodevelopmental pathway as HV, educational psychologist and paediatrician suspect autism.

my son had now been identified as having SEN and funding has been awarded for one to one care as he has now been identified as having social communication delay (causing the outbursts) and lots of other things that were ‘problems’ are now viewed as ‘disabilities’ ie its not his fault anymore. HV also recommended i claim disability for him and it was awarded.

so YANBU. In my humble view its unreasonable to give up on a 5 year old who could have an underlying medical condition. It feels to me like firefighting rather that exploring the root cause, so they are letting him down.

@Thatsnotmycar did you read all the op's posts? A child that can sit and be quiet, can answer questions when asked and be kind to others but bites when he doesn't get his own way does not DEFINITELY have SEN. It's behaviour and his behaviour is causing harm to others. If they can't find a way to manage his behaviour then they need to remove him to protect others.

I have read the OP’s posts. You on the other hand clearly don’t know what SEN covers. The level of behavioural difficulties the OP’s DS displays are classed as SEN in their own right - they are considered SEMH needs. This is about far more than because “he doesn’t get his own way”.

If he's hurting others, its reasonable to remove him - why 0n earth would you think otherwise?

I taught in reception for a couple of years and unless particularly malicious, this level of behaviour wouldn’t be enough for us to have thought there was anything askance about him. Especially as he is so young.

Total exclusion seems harsh but it depends on how extreme his behaviour is. If it has lead to pupils or teachers requiring medical aid he needs to be segregated from others. Getting public paediatric assessments at the moment, post Covid are like gold dust. Private assessments are beyond ordinary families means. Even if the recommend remedial help or Special Classes, the school he attends may not have the resources to help him and exclusion may be the only way to fast track getting the placement he needs. Either way, I do hope he and his family get the help he needs.

@Seashor sadly, you’re probably right. So many shit schools and shit teachers now that nothing will be getting done.

You can make a parental request for an EHCN assessment directly via your local council. Look at the SEND offer page on their website. If the LA agree to the assessment, he will be assessed by professionals and then the LA will look at all the reports and decide if a plan is required. During the assessment the school will be asked what strategies they are already using and what the child’s current attainment / strengths and needs are.

He may not have significant SEN needs, however he may need an additional adult (LSA) to support him and apply the strategies in the areas he needs them most.

I am an EHCP coordinator and have had similar cases where a child has not settled. Sadly, I find across schools that just don’t want to deal with such children, however a school should not be threatening to permanently exclude. They should be looking at ways to support the child through strategies and the LA can support this by initially agreeing an assessment and then a plan which will have agreed resources I.e. LSA hours.

Ask for an assessment. If the school won’t do it, you can directly. It’s not about labelling a child, but getting the child the support they need.

You can make a parental request for an EHCN assessment directly via your local council. Look at the SEND offer page on their website. If the LA agree to the assessment, he will be assessed by professionals and then the LA will look at all the reports and decide if a plan is required. During the assessment the school will be asked what strategies they are already using and what the child’s current attainment / strengths and needs are.

He may not have significant SEN needs, however he may need an additional adult (LSA) to support him and apply the strategies in the areas he needs them most.

I am an EHCP coordinator and have had similar cases where a child has not settled. Sadly, I find across schools that just don’t want to deal with such children, however a school should not be threatening to permanently exclude. They should be looking at ways to support the child through strategies and the LA can support this by initially agreeing an assessment and then a plan which will have agreed resources I.e. LSA hours.

Ask for an assessment. If the school won’t do it, you can directly. It’s not about labelling a child, but getting the child the support they need.

Exactly this!

As a July baby you could hold him back a year and he could start school in reception in a year’s time. School may say no but it’s legal. Or maybe he could do shorter days for a while.

I personally would ask the GP for a referral to a paediatrician. For anything like ADHD and autism you need a medical assessment and not an educational assessment.

It does sound like he is overwhelmed in his current environment and school needs to look at whether they can make adaptations to support him.

The key to managing behaviour is to look at the underlying reasons and then look at what needs to be changed or taught to prevent the behaviours that challenge from occurring. Is it sensory, communication, medical, learning to wait, etc

Get him a speech and language assessment ASAP. No 5 year old should be excluded from school there must be a very good reason for his behaviour

@Alltheholidays "l'm always astounded with posts like this! If I had a child who was hurting other children and it was obvious the teacher didn’t want him in the classroom because of his behaviour, i I would be thoroughly ashamed, and not looking to blame everyone else."
Bully for you. Sorry you would feel thoroughly ashamed.

Fortunately it sounds like OP has a wider emotional spectrum than you, and well she might need it as it sounds like she will have a heck of a fight on her hands to get her son the SUPPORT he needs; the ASSESSMENT his nursery denied him; the RESOURCES to help meet his (as yet unquantified) special educational needs; the TRACKING appropriate to identify specific scenarios and triggers leading up to inappropriate classroom behaviours; and the EXPLANATIONS she and the school staff need to understand what can be done to help his behaviours improve.

Classrooms can be overwhelming places for July born reception children. Particularly if the teacher is a give-no-quarter bully who makes no effort to adjust their teaching methods.

No, biting and hitting is not an appropriate behaviour at school or elsewhere, but it's far from unheard of in a cohort of 4 year olds, even developmentally neurotypical ones!

There is so much a Year R teacher could and should be doing with the parents to help a 4 year old settle in - and not be a risk to his classmates. Threatening exclusion without a conversation between them, the parents and the school SENCO isn't one of them.

It sounds like this teacher is utterly out of their depth in a mainstream Year R classroom of 30, particularly after COVID.

OP you mentioned that the teacher had recently moved from the private sector. It sounds a lot like their teaching history has been exclusively in schools with small class sizes and pre-screening out any special needs. If the teacher is committed to teaching in the state system, they need to get up to speed PDQ with how to assess and support the full range of behavioural issues of children who can quite reasonably be expected to remain in the mainstream system with appropriate support.

It is quite unusual for teachers to leave the private sector and move back to state. Unless this teacher is fully committed to the broad spectrum of state teaching requirements (which it hardly sounds like they are!), I would be suspicious that the quality of their teaching didn't even meet the required standard to retain their original job in the private school.

There are a couple of big red flags around this teacher's handling of the incidents to date.

OP, can I suggest that you ask for a meeting with the school SENCO & head of Year R/head teacher to review the incidents to date, scenarios leading up to them, and how they were handled in class. The teacher should have documented each of them if they resulted in any agression to another child. This should give you some initial answers - either on events leading up to poor behaviour and how these could be addressed differently for your child in future (the beginnings of an EHCP plan, or at least referral document), or otherwise on the inadequacy of the teacher's ability to manage & document a standard mixed Year R group in a state school setting.

If it's the first the head has head of it, you will have a significant answer. You can then begin to backtrack & work fully with the school to put appropriate steps in place to manage DS' behaviour to ensure it doesn't get to the stage these incidents result in agression in future.

School budgets are extremely stretched & extra TA support or 1-2-1 might not be possible as easily as SENCO guidance suggests it should. But by being open & co-operating with the full school staff, at least you can determine whether it is one duff teacher's opinion that the easiest way to make their life in the classroom simple is to kick your son out. Or whether this is a more pervasive attitude from across the school. In which case get meeting minutes and take it to SENDIAS and your LA to ask for support getting an assessment and finding a local mainstream school who might actually have the skills they should to support a 4 year old who is hardly developmentally abnormal, but may need more support to adjust to school than he's currently getting.

Good luck

And do ignore the virtue shamers who are fortunate enough not to have had to support a child with some additional needs in adjusting to school! You sound a very committed & sensible parent and I'm sure working strongly with the school will enable you all to help your son meet the high standards of polite behaviour you expect at home in this new, demanding, overwhelming classroom environment as well.

I'm assuming that you are in the UK, even if you aren't, you need to make an appointment with the head and the teacher to make a plan to work on your son's behaviour. He may need to be assessed by specialist paediatrician, or even an educational psychologist, although if in the UK behaviour is not normally assessed by an ed psych until secondary school. The reason that I suggest this is that he may have ADD/ADHD and is probably on the autistic scale (most learning disabilities are and don't let the terms/designations scare you). Don't worry, many kids have this and lead normal lives. I would add that if the school refuses an assessment, which they may well do, then ask your GP for a referral. The school does this because if your son is classified special needs then they have to allocate resources to help him. My son has dyslexia and the primary school totally failed him but I got him help through my wonderful GP and by finding specialists who helped him after school. I also suggest that you speak to the school governor who is responsible for special needs.

@DismantledKing
Bollocks. The right of kids not to be hurt trumps a right to education

Actually no-the law is clear all children are equal in their right to fair access to education.

My child was bitten in reception. Didn't even occur to me that the biter should be excluded permanently- they are 4/5!

It sounds like your child is very distressed in school and needs to be assessed by someone though. I would speak to the GP ASAP. Could you ask for the school senco to get involved? Sorry this must be very difficult.

What happens when the fair access for one results in a safeguarding situation for the others? Treating all of them "equally" will not result in fairness for all.

Schools don't routinely try to 'get rid' of children with additional needs in my 30 years experience as a teacher.

Yes they do. Sadly it's an increasing problem, grossly exacerbated by the rise in MAT's.

@sunshineonasunnyday they probably find it easier to try and persuade a move than to try and get money out of the LA to fund a LSA / TA.

If he is only four he doesn't legally have to be in school. Could you take him out for a few months? He may be ready in a few months

I doubt very much that after just 5 weeks he has been given the chance to see a psychologist! If this is the first you are hearing about it then someone has made a huge mistake. I’m by no means saying he’s not a little shit and causing havoc but you need to be informed on a daily basis how his behaviour has been. It’s up to you too to contact the school. Exclusions at the age of 5 seems a bit punitive . They’ve just doomed him for life . Roll up your sleeves and fight for the care he apparently needs whether in a mainstream or special needs school.

@Johnnysgirl

• DoubleShotEspresso @DismantledKing Bollocks. The right of kids not to be hurt trumps a right to education

Actually no-the law is clear all children are equal in their right to fair access to education.

What happens when the fair access for one results in a safeguarding situation for the others? Treating all of them "equally" will not result in fairness for all.*

What should happen is that the school/SENCO, create positive behaviour plans, identifying what triggers these behaviours, best coping strategies and methods and appropriate support sought via an application for emergency interim funding.

This provides evidence for the assessments process and investigations to commence and specialist inputs and report to make recommendations and if needed an EHCP application.

Some children within a MS environment respond well to appropriate support and go on to thrive. Others need a different environment and parents would and should be updated /advised upon all developments and updates.

Your statement Treating all of them "equally" will not result in fairness for all.* bears no logic. If you're seriously suggesting a four year old be denied the opportunity, tools and education for adult life that any parent hopes for their child by immediately segregating them/writing them off academically, "fairness" is not a term you can apply here. A lot of work takes place in these situations -it takes significant effort and time, but often generates positives for a child once struggling.

And this is why the legislation is so important to ensure equality is delivered to all pupils not just those you as a parent may decide is worthy of education.

This is how I would feel unless the biter bit my child repeatedly and attacked other children repeatedly too . . .

If his behavior threatens other children, or is too disruptive, then the school has a responsibility to take action. It sounds like telling him he would be expelled was a THREAT to let him know what the ultimate consequences of his bad behavior would be, because where I taught, expulsion was an extremely serious matter and very difficult to achieve. It required documentation and plenty of input from teachers, a formal hearing, etc. etc.

If he is being threatened with expulsion, though, you need to do the following:

1. schedule a formal talk with the teacher and administration. Ask for documentation, and for the school to come up with a plan to deal with him. Acknowledge that he is troublesome if you agree with their assessment of his behaviors.
2. get him some private counseling or therapy. Do you have any problems at home that may be contributing? (separation of parents, death in the family, etc.)? Be honest with yourself.
3. consider a private school. Look for an academy that is strict and doesn't tolerate misbehavior. It's unfortunate, but some children just need "tough love."
4. And be sure you talk with him and let him know the behaviors cannot continue. Reassure him that you love him, but you won't tolerate hearing if he continues to bite and attack other children. This is definitely a no-no, and you will agree with the school if they have to expel him. If they do, he will go to a school that will not be as fun as the one he's at now.

Some children are just difficult, and it's not anybody's fault.