To wonder why drag queens have to do those stupid facial expressions

[deadloud]

The stupid 'sultry' porno face. Why do they do it?

Dressing up in high heels etc - great, crack on.

Oh is it that simple?! Oh great! Men can just slip on an LBD and some lippy and go about their lives yeah?!

It may shock you, but dressing or behaving in an effiminate manner has historically gotten men beaten, kicked out of their homes, arrested, and discriminated against in various ways! Horrific, I know! There are even some people who will start calling men 'AGPs' or 'perverts' for donning so much as a thong and heels!

I don't like all the gender malarkey as much as many on here. I'm GC too. Agender. I don't want one. However, I recognize that we have our fantasy world where Bob down the road can go out dressed to the nines, feeling good, and noone will percieve him as a weird pervert in a dress.

Then we have the reality, where society dicates that women wear sparkly dresses and men wear jeans and boring shoes. It is not a surprise to me that a bloke who likes dressing up has said 'that must mean I'm (dressing up as) a woman.' I'm not going to rail against anyone for interpreting gender/sex expectations in a different way than me. It's only very recently that wider society has begun thinking differently.

They're not dressing up as Linda from number 42. They're exaggerating their own femininity. Some of them are wearing fake tits and hips because they like the way their body looks that way. They think they look fabulous in that get up, whether they call themselves women or not. It's not about you, or me. It's an ACT. It's ART. It's about the culture of effeminate men and the hardships they have faced trying to be themselves.

Besides, it's all changing. You're just as likely to see someone dressed as a space alien or someone with a beard or a bald head nowadays.

Done now or I'll carry on forever.

Sure I get what you're saying, everyone has different tastes, if you do t like it don't watch it.
But.....would you say the same thing about blacking up? If black and white minstrel shows were still put on 'for entertainment' and black people said we find this deeply offensive because it is racist - it is based on racist stereotypes yet some white people find this entertaining (because that's exactly what used to happen) - I'd bet you would not say the same thing.

🙄

Agree @deadloud I hate them too! Drag Queens are SO 15 years ago! I really dislike them too.

Drag Queens are SO 15 years ago!
😁 So what should all the cool people be watching or liking, then?
I look forward to learning from your expertise 😁

I was talking about drag acts rather than ‘Bob down the road’. As that is what the thread is about..

What should we be watching?

Well, not drag Queens. They are sexist, misogynistic, naff, 15 years out date, and pathetic.

HTH.

I was talking about drag acts rather than ‘Bob down the road’. As that is what the thread is about..

Drag IS about men like that though. Drag has always been be about men (and women, through Drag King's) expressing the sides of themselves that they are unable to in every day life. LISTEN to the stories on RPDR. Listen to them explaining how they have been chastised and victimized because of their sexuality and femininity. Drag has allowed people, especially effeminate men, to dress up and act as fabulously as they like. It does help to pave the way for other people who want to express themselves the way they want to.

I hate it, I’ve complained again to the BBC about their much touted woman face programme. Unlikely to get anywhere.

Women’s view points count for fuck all

You know that many possibly even most women don't object to drag yes?

Female impersonators are really not the same thing as drag queens. No more than a boy actors at a boys school playing the female role is a drag queen. Panto dames aren't drag queens either.

Trying to elide all these cultural phenomena of different origins - people do the same with blackface now - isn't helpful at all in understanding them, or why they are or are not problematic.

It's just very reductive.

Wow I am impressed. You know EVERY WOMAN IN THE WORLD, and their opinion!!!

Wow I am impressed. You know EVERY WOMAN IN THE WORLD, and their opinion!!! Hmm
Erm, where does the post say every woman in the world?!
It says most, nowhere does it say every woman.
Lots of women clearly like it, just like lots don't.
As we're all individuals.

Why should women care that it was a way for lgbt men to express themselves
Because I'm capable of caring about others even if their fights don't concern me?
Going by your logic I shouldn't care about racism either then as I'm white, or same sex relationships as I'm a married heterosexual.

Drag has always made me feel physically sick.

I don't know if drag performers are all trying to intentionally insult women. I suspect some are taking the piss, some think it's some weird celebration of women, some do it for the gay/trans scene and others maybe for the money.

I'm not a fan but not sure if should be stopped. Unless there's a causal link between that and women being treated or thought of badly (and I'm not sure drag really has a role in that).

It’s all revolting.

Stanley Baxter had gorgeous legs!!!

Im not mad on drag, I just don’t really find it funny but I’ve never really thought of it as misogynistic. Just dress up and character acting. I quite like the art that goes into the outfit and makeup though. Weird what people get hung up over.

The deeply unpleasant 'fishy comments in a bit I saw of an episode of 8 out if 10 cats does countdown or whatever it is called showed its deep misogynistic vibe. The whole thing is insulting to women.

Oh the art and the make up is amazing. The characterisation less so.

I was confused by the trans contestant. Beautiful looking in the first episode that I caught by accident, but if they think they are a woman then surely its not drag?

Not seen any since , so sorry if that has been explained

It does help to pave the way for other people who want to express themselves the way they want to.

But it clearly doesn't, otherwise Bob down the round would be happily popping to the shops in his heels wouldn't he? Drag has been around for quite a while now.

If drag artists didn't pretend to be women and the act was about men dressing up and being fabulous then it might.

I've got no problem at all with men being fabulous, what I have got a problem with is the taking the piss out of women and promoting gender stereotypes.

I've got no problem at all with men being fabulous, what I have got a problem with is the taking the piss out of women and promoting gender stereotypes.

The thing is the more you actually watch RPDR (or other more inclusive shows!) or listen to Drag Queens when you speak, the more you realise it really isn't about women. It is about themselves. The reason the typical Queen is 'bitchy' or 'slutty' is because (please forgive me) that is the performers actual personality.

They don't make jokes about being sluts as women. They make jokes about being slutty gay men. Blowjobs, tops, bottoms, etc.
They don't wear hip pads because they want to take the piss. They wear them because it's hard to look good in a dress without sculpting your body. Heels make your legs look longer. Make up makes your face look sculpted.
You don't hear 'girl' and 'sister' because they are trying to be women. It's a part of gay male culture and lingo and has been for ever.
It's about them, them, them. What they think looks good. Putting on an act.

And the more you watch it, or at least the more I watch it, the more you see the artistry. Making themselves into mushrooms, space aliens, bags of chips, ice cream cones, pink tentacle things.

Drag being visible has been one small step along the way in queerness and genderbending in general being more accepted. Imho.

I'm just curious about what exactly you'd change. Should they put on their make up in a manlier way?

@ToGanymedeAndTitan
You cut off my sentence half way through. I said why should women care that it was a way for lgbt men to express themselves at the expense of women?

It IS at the expense of women because it makes us into a caricature - just like blackface.

Going by YOUR logic, women should allow men to mock and make caricatures out of us just because they're gay? No thanks.

Unacceptable. No better than blackface. And why so bitchy? An obvious put down of women yet people of both sexes flock to watch it.

I agree with a lot of this and the aspects of drag that I do like are the artistry and creativity of the costumes and make up.

The fact is though that the world is moving on and people in general are far more accepting of gender bending and freedom of expression for men.

Drag is problematic for many of the same reasons blackface is. Pretending it isn’t is disingenuous. Times change, social mores change, drag needs to change.

every decade there are elements of entertainment that become dated and offensive. Drag is no exception just because it’s historically been an aspect of a marginalised culture.

I would love to see drag move on from being about parodying women and be entirely about the costumes and performances. I sometimes refer to myself as being in drag when I put on heels and make-up, because it’s not my normal look. It’s a costume for me as much as it would be for a man.

if drag can stop being about men pretending to be women, and become about people of either sex putting on amazing costumes, that would be great.