These women don’t have the right to complain

[Cheeseplants]

That their baby’s father is a deadbeat, when they told them from the start they didn’t want a child with them.

Like what did they expect?
I’m all for women having the right to choose, but when you choose to give birth to a child that’s dad does not want him/her… are you justified in complaining about that man when the child is born and isn’t playing daddy?

YABU- yes they have the right to complain
YANBU- no they shouldn’t complain

@Velvian Why can I only choose all or none? That’s very black and white and the topics surrounding this are not.
I’ve made it clear in my posts which women I’m talking about and it’s definitely not every woman who has a deadbeat dad. Because some deadbeats don’t look like deadbeats when you first meet them, and they tell you they want kids with you blah blah and then you are, rightfully, shocked and disappointed when you find out it was all a facade and that he’s a deadbeat.
I’m only talking of the women who saw a deadbeat, knew he was one, shagged him and then suddenly they’re shocked when he continues acting the same way he was when they met him.

Eh what? I don’t know you and make no assumptions about you as a random onhere, what an odd question. You stated men don’t present themselves as losers with no concept of responsibility and I responded telling you factually that they do. And quite a lot of them.

I find this hard to answer, as I don't know any women who deliberately and purposely got pregnant, when their DH/DP stated categorically that he didn't want a baby. Do women really do that?

I suppose if it DOES happen, then no, they can't complain if the man/father of the baby doesn't want anything to do with the baby. Then again, why are men having sex with women without a condom if they DEFINITELY don't want children? He can say he wants nothing to do with the baby, but he should be forced to pay up for its keep. Takes two to Tango and all that!

The child's mother chooses the dad, always.

The best way to advocate for the child's needs is to be very, very discriminating in the choice of its father. Before conception.

I haven't seen you present any facts @Anniefrenchfry . I told you the facts of my own situation and pointed out that I was subject to the views you promote.

As I said, you can only really choose to tar all women with that brush or none of them. Women that choose to get pregnant to men they know will be useless fathers and partners or to claim benefits are on the scale of few to mythical.

It is far safer to avoid judgement than to rush to it. You never know when your own circumstances may change to tip you into the unacceptable bracket.

She didn't do it, they did.

@Keyansier , you can have unprotected sex when you are HIV positive. Generally when you are medicated and your viral load is under a certain amount. We now know more about transmission and most women don't carry the virus in intimate body fluids.

It's correct that women do pick the father of their children. If a man states that he doesn't want to be a father, it's upto you if you have sex with him without protection. If you are having casual sex and don't want to be a LP, use double protection. He will still be financially responsible. If you are in a relationship with that man, then you make your decision to be a LP or not. It must be galling when they want to know once the child is an adult, though. Women have the right to give their children up for adoption, they don't have to inform the father.

No-one can get themselves into a situation that they knew would happen beforehand and then legitimately complain.

Men can and do lie. My dd dad told me he would support me and wanted her as much as I did. Yet he left me as soon as she was born. Together 6 yrs married….

@Cheeseplants , I don't understand how you know which women's are the ones that you want to discriminate against and which are not. That is why I say you only have the choice of all or none. No situation is black and white, which is precisely why I don't understand how you make your judgement.

Women that choose to get pregnant to men they know will be useless fathers and partners or to claim benefits are on the scale of few to mythical.

This just isn't true.

On Mumsnet alone we constantly have OPs along the likes of "he has 4 kids from 3 other women, hasn't seen two of them in a year.. but he said it would be different with ours..now he's gone and left me and our newborn .."

Or the ever popular "My partner has no job, no friends, games all night long and ignores me unless he wants sex or food; we've been together six months and when i fell pregnant five months ago he promised to find work but now gets angry when i mention it.."

The examples are endless!

Sorry but the OP is right; women who are willing to hook up with any old loser do not have a right to complain or play victim when the predictable outcome ensues.

@Cheeseplants

Can I ask, are you a single parent yourself?

Because my point was kind of that I didn’t get lied to (at least not about that) - he did want our son. He still admits he wanted our son, but if he thinks it’ll get him sympathy, he’ll lie to others about it.

Being a single parent, our society judges you guilty before they find out why anyway. You’re automatically treated like you did something wrong and have something to apologise for. I’m not really sure what the point is of making a thread about an already shit-on demographic just to point out that you don’t feel sorry for a portion of them. It seems pretty mean spirited.

Oooh you’re brave! Although secretly I agree with you. Some women always think they’ll be the one to change a man - oh he’ll love the baby sooo much that we’ll live happily ever after. Em - no you won’t. You’ll be left bringing up a child on your own and possibly struggling to get by.

And where will the prize specimen of manhood be? Cozying down with the next woman willing to be with someone like him. And I know he didn’t choose to have a baby but he obviously didn’t take any precautions either.

Some people just make very poor choices.

If a man promises the world and suddenly changed when you get pregnant (it happens!) YABU. But if he's always been aggressive/lazy/unmotivated/whatever, then choosing to have a baby with him and being shocked he continues to behave as previously mentioned then...YANBU

However, I see lots of people like this through work and they almost always have issues/ past trauma themselves. It's hardly ever a simple situation.

The same as people who have more children then they can comfortably care for etc.

Silly comment. Of course they have a right. If a man has sex with a woman without precautions he runs the risk of becoming a father. He then has a responsibility to step up. He had the option of condoms or a vasectomy to f he really doesn't want to become a dad.

Have a watch of the old Jeremy Kyle's (no I wasn't a fan) but I've lived among people who live like his guests do. I look at the beautiful teen girls who do the full makeup/hair/lashes and who go with the lads who wear black north face head to toe and ride the Peds/smoke weed and just think wtf!. Theres loser dads who have 2-10 (no exaggeration) who land woman after woman and these are working women, not just those living on benefits etc.

The anti-abortion stance is that if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she can abstain or remove her fertility (via surgery). I don't agree with that stance for men or women. Men shouldn't have to have their fertility removed surgically. They are still made financially responsible, but you can't make either sex emotionally etc responsible.

No they can't complain about him being a shit dad if he said he didn't want to be a dad in the first place. They will though 🤣

My sons dad wanted him but still disappeared when he was 3 never to be seen again. So you never know.

I don't know any who admit to it, but I do know a few couples where the stated desire was no children, and then there was a contraception failure when the woman was mid 30s.

I still don't feel sorry for men who handball contraception to the woman and take no responsibility though.

*I don't know any who admit to it, but I do know a few couples where the stated desire was no children, and then there was a contraception failure when the woman was mid-30s.

I still don't feel sorry for men who handball contraception to the woman and take no responsibility though.*

You mean men are at best naive and at worst blatantly stupid, to put that level of trust in someone - the woman knowing full well, right from the outset, that they didn't want children.

Love to be a fly on the wall when she shares her "good news".

The only woman I know who got pregnant knowing it was not what her 'partner' wanted was a woman who'd been strung along for about four years, and she was nearly forty. I was very sympathetic to her. Her asshole partner lead her to believe that he'd be ready for DC ''soon'' for four years. Eventually she panicked and that panic made her take control of the situation.

That's reprehensible.

Totally

Everyone has a right to complain, but I struggle to feel sympathy for the women that do this

Assuming they've done it willingly then I agree with you

Yes of course men should be responsible for children they've risked creating, but the determination of some not to accept this doesn't remove the women's own responsibility - and after all they're the ones most likely to be left literally holding the baby

@Velvian
To provide an example
some people I know.

The usual the charm, drink, drugs, party ect
The men make it clear that they don't want to be a dad.
The women know this is the men's attitudes
But because some of the women have said it was the appeal of them anyway even though they knew it was just sex.

Then the obvious happened one of the women did get preg, and the also obvious happened, the man still cheated, party ect.

The woman not impressed about having the kid and the farthers attitude.
And yet the women knew exactly what was what

In conclusion how do you square this attitude or explain who is wrong in this situation ? @Velvian