These women don’t have the right to complain

[Cheeseplants]

That their baby’s father is a deadbeat, when they told them from the start they didn’t want a child with them.

Like what did they expect?
I’m all for women having the right to choose, but when you choose to give birth to a child that’s dad does not want him/her… are you justified in complaining about that man when the child is born and isn’t playing daddy?

YABU- yes they have the right to complain
YANBU- no they shouldn’t complain

How often do men tell women, before they sleep with them, that they don't want any resulting children. More likely they only say that when it is too late and the baby has already been made.

How often do women tell men that if they end up accidentally pregnant they will want to become parents?

Unless people are actively TTC, the default attitude (wrongly and dangerously for both partners) is that babies are not wanted. And like it or not, abortion is widely considered to be a valid option when an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy has occurred. It is disingenuous to act as if it isn’t. The OP asked about people having babies despite knowing from early on that the child’s father is irresponsible and doesn’t want to be involved, and ruling out abortion in those circumstances is an active choice.

Women absolutely have the right to decide what they do if they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy, but can we stop treating them like they’re victims when they’re really not?

Jeeze, can you imagine having to go through all the shit and hassle of bringing up a child, you never wanted in the first place. And your partner knowing that !.

What about the children? Do they not have a right to complain about having a shit, uninvolved parent?

The thing is... men in general don't pull their weight when it comes to parenting. It's not just men who didn't want to be parents in the first place, it's also men who actively wanted children but then found they couldn't hack family life. Also men apparently in happy families who let their partners do everything and don't share the load.

How about we start from the position that if you're equally involved in creating a new life, you should take 50% of the financial, emotional and practical responsibility for the resulting baby?

Not because you owe it to your ex/partner, but because you owe it to the child you've created together.

Well.... She could terminate though. Just saying. If a woman chooses to keep it, she should stay quiet about her choice.

We can talk about what men "should" do, or we can conduct ourselves in the real world.

Choosing to mate with losers and then portraying oneself as a victim when they predictably behave as losers is exceedingly tiresome.

Have higher standards for oneself and exercise some self-discipline. Or don't, but then don't complain to the rest of us about the inevitable outcomes.

It's men as a group who need to change not women. They're the ones who need to hold themselves to a higher standard and exercise some self-discipline.

Why should women be expected to beat themselves up for being taken in by losers? Why don't we make it socially and financially unacceptable for men to be 'loser' parents in the first place?

How often do women tell men that if they end up accidentally pregnant they will want to become parents?

how often do women become intentionally pregnant without telling their partner?

it’s not uncommon.

Difference is that the second one results in the birth of a human. That human is a person and they matter regardless of who said/ did what.

Who are ''these women''? Successfully forcing men to parent against their will.

You're an ignorant misogynist.

I think posters are being deliberately obtuse, the op is writing this about the women not the men, she’s asking why women get involved with men who they know to be utter deadbeats, who don’t treat them well and who won’t be involved with any kids. Shagging these men Iis a decision women also make and they are also responsible for that decision as they too know there is a risk of pregnancy

Unless you're Boris Becker and had your semen stolen from a used condom, then these men have responsibilities too. Nothing stopping them from a vasectomy so it never happens.

@Anniefrenchfry , I'd be intrigued to know how many men present themselves as losers with no concept of responsibility as a seduction technique. I'm not sure if the scenario suggested exists at all.

Are you kidding me, what a naive view of the world. Hang around here for awhile. Unemployed to low work, drugs, drink, fighting , cheating , not that interested,,and yes women shag em.

Um, maybe take some time to get to know their character before shagging them?

If one is dead set against termination, it's probably a good idea to take some time and exercise restraint, to winnow out the losers, abusers, deadbeats and those not interested in parenting before exposing oneself to their semen.

I’d be very sceptical of a man who is a deadbeat insisting they told their ex they didn’t want kids.

Lots of guys know how society views deadbeat dads, so suddenly they “never wanted kids anyway!” Or “WANT to be involved REALLY it’s just she won’t let me!” Or got “baby trapped!”.

I mean, according to OP I DO have permission to moan about my ex (thanks!) because our son was very much planned- but I’d bet money that’s not what he tells ladies he’s trying to chat up.

Personally, I don't think I'm the one the naive view. @Anniefrenchfry I'm a very cynical, middle aged mother of 3. Sexually abused in my adolescence and teens, teenage pregnancies, former single mother.

Do you think I was exempt from the attitudes you mention, due to the fact that I was a groomed child, insufficiently protected by my parents and other adults?

Do you suppose that I have not been subject to character assassination and verbal abuse for my DC's lifetime by the man that abused me and his family? He didn't stop to think, 'hang on a minute, this woman has single handedly brought up my child, with zero financial contribution from me'

I also internalised this to my mid thirties, carrying 'the shame' of being a teenage mother. Far harder than that was when I realised that it wasn't actually my shame to carry. It was quite easy to live with it all being 'my fault'.

Probably no harder than insisting he wears a condom, to be completely fair.

I would have thought the number of men who make it loud and clear they don’t/won’t be a ‘dad’ before they have unprotected sex must be very small.

If they are the sort to be very upfront about it, then I bet they have protected sex.

Its the other ones I think a lot of women fall foul of. They don’t declare their position, not only about being a father, but also wether they are even going to be a long term partner. I have seen so many posts where a partner, a husband, has walked out during pregnancy. The woman will often say that this is a planned pregnancy.

So YABU, I think a lot of these women are the victim to duplicitous males.

I will always feel sorry for them.

Kosherdill, so in the early stages of dating, when you might not know all the guys flaws, you're not meant to have sex with them

Well there is a school of thought that, as pregnancy often results in pregnancy, whether you use contraception or not, it is indeed better to refrain from casual sex and be in a serious relationship before doing so. Because that would be an awful lot better on the whole for children and society.

But that is considered very old fashioned I know.

@Mumoblue I’m not talking about your case at all. I feel for women in these scenarios and can understand your outrage because you were LIED to.
However plenty of women were not lied to. They knew he didn’t want kids and still chose to risk pregnancy, give birth and then be annoyed he didn’t step up.

Ok, let's say the women don't have a right to complain.
Does the child have a right to complain about deadbeat dad?
And if the child does have a right to complain, does the childs mother have a right to advocate for her childs needs?

It’s one thing telling a woman you want her to have and abortion. It’s quite another thing to go through the act of getting an abortion. Can you not see how that might weigh more heavily on a person.
Not to mention that it is technically illegal in this country to have an abortion for social reasons. It is only allowed on the pretense that it is to protect the woman's mental health.

Doggydoos- completely agree, the judgement are here is from the dark ages, it seems women must remain chaste until marriage, and if you have a contraception failure, you are to blame

*on here

@Cheeseplants How do you know which mothers to unleash your judgement upon? You can only really choose all or none.