Dd just isn’t very nice.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

I know that sounds awful to say.
I love my Dd, just turned 4 more than anything in the world. She’s bright, funny, motivated, independent and can be v loving and sweet.
For quite a while now…maybe since 3.6 years old, she’s been so difficult, shouts when doesn’t get her own way, highly strung etc…there’s usually crying and an awful start to the day most mornings. She’s also great fun and full of energy…but these outbursts and the way she speaks are bringing me down. We’ve always brought her up to speak nicely and have manners etc but I find her shouting ‘I’m not going to listen to you!’ And ‘Be quiet!’ etc so much these days. I feel like so many things are a battle, is this normal, what am I doing wrong? I miss the more pleasant side of her!

[Mariposista]

Welcome to MN, where nicey nicey parenting reigns supreme and if your child thumps you you are expected to say 'would you like to talk about how you're feeling?' rather than 'stop that' and implement discipline hahahaha no wonder there are so many horror kids out there!
TBF to you OP, this is a phase. She can behave well, you know that. Be firm and consistent, ignore any whinging and crying (unless she is obviously hurt or unwell) and you will be ok.

[bingbummy]

I think it's about the connection you have with your child. Is she in nursery or with you?

Do you speak to her around things or resort to shouting?

[Dirtystreetpie]

@awomanofthecuntytype

A couple of things stand out to me, OP.

One is that you have brought your DD up to speak nicely, have manners etc. That's obviously what we all do - but IME there are some parents whose method for doing this is "oh darling, you mustn't hurt Mummy", rather than being very clear about there being some behaviours which are unacceptable.

I was also struck by you saying that your DD wants for nothing. There is no correlation between a child having every material advantage and them behaving nicely. In the nicest possible way, it sounds as if you have spoilt her a bit.

At her age, it is perfectly ok for there to be natural consequences for hitting/screaming/rudeness. If she shouts at you, you can't hear her. One of mine was a whinger and I used to keep asking her to repeat what she was saying in a proper voice because I couldn't understand her whingey voice. If she didn't repeat it in a proper voice, she didn't get to do whatever it was.

I think you might need to be firmer and clearer with your DD. If you had more than one child, you'd have a bit less time not to be.

This 100%

[Regularsizedrudy]

@Mariposista

Welcome to MN, where nicey nicey parenting reigns supreme and if your child thumps you you are expected to say 'would you like to talk about how you're feeling?' rather than 'stop that' and implement discipline hahahaha no wonder there are so many horror kids out there!
TBF to you OP, this is a phase. She can behave well, you know that. Be firm and consistent, ignore any whinging and crying (unless she is obviously hurt or unwell) and you will be ok.

You know it’s possible to say both those thing right? You can be firm and still open to talk about feelings.

it’s not like the previous generation have all turned into Stella adults with the firm approach…

[Dixiechickonhols]

I know you say it predates pre school but that’s a big change if she’s just been at home with you. Is she happy and settled there - are staff reporting any issues. There are lots of different types. If a lot of peers are younger it might not be suiting.
Mine went to 2 different settings when she was 4 and the more formal school like one suited her better eg they did phonics with reception and there were other children on her wavelength.

[TheLoupGarou]

House rules - repeated calmly and respectfully not shouted. "We don't yell at each other" "we don't put hands on each other" - 1 strike and then a consequence.

Some kids are more sensitive and explosive than others ,<side-eyes at ds2> you need to work out triggers and try to head things off at the pass. Also remember behaviour is communication AND kids model what they see - if you/your DH are yelling at her then that's what she will do too. None of us are perfect - I've certainly shouted at my kids - I always apologise for doing it.

I also do the thing where I say "pardon me?" And do not understand a request until it is repeated nicely.

I agree with a pp that there is a lot of social expectation placed on girls to be quiet and meek and compliant .....

[Abracadabra12345]

@Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled

@Lightattheendofthetunnel100 Thank you for saying this 🙏

Lightatthendofthetunnel100 is amazing, I love her posts ♥️

[Dixiechickonhols]

If she’s energetic I’d up the exercise - swimming, trampolining etc. Maybe look at getting an annual pass for farm or zoo.

[CoffeeHousePot]

You aren't doing anything wrong.

Some children do go through "difficult" phases. Be that as a result of changes/hormones etc.

All you can do is ensure clear and consistent parenting.

Keep engaged with pre-school. Ask them if they have any issues. If they do, get a plan to work together.

Might also be worth speaking to your HV.

The only thing I would have in the back of mind to keep an eye on would be ASD/ADHD. Some of the things you have said ("getting very angry if she doesn't get own way, highly strung") are often issues with girls with ASD, which is notoriously under diagnosed.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@CoffeeHousePot Ive been worried about this for around a year tbh, but I’m not sure

[ChampagneLassie]

Try reading philipa Perry's book "the book you'll wish your parents read" all about trying to understand your child and vocalise their feelings.

[CoffeeHousePot]

@Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled if you are worried then I would really recommend speaking to your HV and/or GP now. Don't wait. The diagnosis process is long so if you have concerns better to get on waitlists. You can always leave them if in say a year things have improved.

Can I also suggest you post on the SEN board? Explain your situation. Lots of families with neurodiverse children.

Really supportive bunch and you will find parents who have had similar concerns and been through assessments).

[Emotionalsupportviper]

@Beamur

Thinking about why she's doing this is a good place to start. Has something changed? Is she at nursery/pre-school? Maybe this is something she's hearing outside of the home and bringing back.
Find ways not to battle. Can you alter your morning routine, can you give her more freedom to choose? What are you clashing over?
I think it's also ok to have strong rules around how we speak to each other.

This is what I was wondering.

It doesn't have to be something that's happened directly to her - if, for instance, a good friend has moved away and no longer goes to her nursery group it could unsettle her.

[Ihatemyroad]

All sounds very normal.

She’s striving for independence. She’s trying to get some control over situations. All very normal.

I found this phase to be harder than the toddler stage because they have the will and the language to start being defiant, say what they think (in the moment) and at times shout at you.

[Dalaidramailama]

Got to be honest i didn’t like mine that much at 4. I loved her dearly of course but….. yeah!!!

She is nearly 11 now and extremely likeable. I am very grateful that she’s mine. Hang on in there!

[mswales]

My child is just like this and it started around the same age. The most frustrating thing is getting angry with him just escalates the unpleasant behaviour. He reacts SO defensively to any disapproval or anger from me. The only way to get him out of being rude and shouty in the moment is to make him laugh or lovebomb him (while still firmly holding my limits, I don't let him have what he wants, I just empathise with the frustration and anger he is displaying - which believe me can be sooooo hard, the patience required is insane).
Please please read up on child brain development and behaviour, I highly recommend the Whole Brain Child. What your daughter is doing is normal. Once you find a way to deal with her that she responds well to you will have a lot more of the lovely girl that you adore. If you want her behaviour to change you need to address the feelings that are causing the behaviour rather than punish the behaviour, which won't work at all.
Also massively recommend Laura Markham (www.ahaparenting.com/, www.ahaparenting.com/guide/discipline-that-works) and Janet Lansbury www.janetlansbury.com/2010/04/no-bad-kids-toddler-discipline-without-shame-9-guidelines/). I listen to their podcasts or read their websites whenever I've lost my rag and am feeling depressed and need a reset.

[ArabellaScott]

Ah, the Fucking Fours. Hellish times. It will pass, OP. Sending hugs.

Some good advice above, I second Laura Markham's work.

First thing to do is check how you are, how you're feeling, coping, in yourself. Have you got a support group, do you go to mum's groups, todddlers, something? Someone to moan to when you've had a hard day?

[Royalbloo]

Around the same time I sat down with my DD and we made a list of the things we wouldn't do at home. For example, we have a general "no shouting" rule. This is for both of us and works well. Occasionally one of us will break it but I've found it's usually me first!

[nutbrownhare15]

I'd also recommend Laura Markham, this post gives a taster www.ahaparenting.com/read/strong-willed-child. Reframing it so you think of it as her struggling with big emotions rather than not being very nice will also help. As parents, we need to help children to learn to regulate their emotions not suppress them so please don't ignore her as some other posters have suggested. Calm empathy with limits on things that need to be limited is the way forward. And making sure you get a break too.

[Royalbloo]

Also, found 5+ much easier

[nutbrownhare15]

Sorry, full stop ruined the link above www.ahaparenting.com/read/strong-willed-child

[Felixfeather223]

@Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled that sounds really tough, and I’d imagine incredibly wearing for you. Just wondering, do you or your DH shout at her and/or use a “cross voice” to get her to do something generally? Or do you and DH ever shout or snap at each other? Or do either of you shout or lose temper at say other people you might be discussing, or the tv or radio? Am not sure this would cause it at all, but I am curious what the answers are.

I imagine it can come out of nowhere, seems to be a pretty common experience, but some of the parents I know who have had this particular issue have been generally lovely but one or both of them tend to express impatience more readily either with each other or the children. Or shouting- even in a non aggressive way is more normal to them. Say, shouting to each other in the next room or shouting to stop the children from doing something. They even have often have good, healthy relationships but it’s noticeable the difference between parents for whom “disrespectful” communication isn’t normal at all in the family, and the ones where it is.
Or could they be witnessing these sorts of dynamics elsewhere?