Dd just isn’t very nice.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

I know that sounds awful to say.
I love my Dd, just turned 4 more than anything in the world. She’s bright, funny, motivated, independent and can be v loving and sweet.
For quite a while now…maybe since 3.6 years old, she’s been so difficult, shouts when doesn’t get her own way, highly strung etc…there’s usually crying and an awful start to the day most mornings. She’s also great fun and full of energy…but these outbursts and the way she speaks are bringing me down. We’ve always brought her up to speak nicely and have manners etc but I find her shouting ‘I’m not going to listen to you!’ And ‘Be quiet!’ etc so much these days. I feel like so many things are a battle, is this normal, what am I doing wrong? I miss the more pleasant side of her!

Kids go through obnoxious phases as they grow up.zThey quickly pass

She has so much love and affection from us, has an amazing life and wants for nothing, I just don’t understand what’s going wrong

My parents often come and my mum says I’m not strict enough with her and that we were never like this etc.

It's great that she gets so much love and affection, but it sounds like you're spoiling her and not discipling her.

You seem to have ceded control to her.

You need to be more confident in saying no to her.

Stop giving her attention when she is mean or has a tantrum.

Oh please. It’s usually the women who stay behind and look after the dc while the men bog off! Children are not all the same and parenting can be hard and we are allowed to say so!

Also, emotions are complicated. It’s entirely possible imho to absolutely adore your child (and the op has said clearly that she adores her dd) and feel totally frustrated, worn down and upset at their behaviour all at the same time.

I think it is healthy to be able to acknowledge that you don’t t like your child while they are going through a certain phase, rather than having to pretend it’s all fairy cakes and roses. If posters are not allowed to express this on Mumsnet, they will feel not only frustrated but isolated and unheard too. And they don’t get to benefit from the wisdom and solidarity of others going through the same thing. How exactly is that going to help?

Mumsnet is about one of the only places left where women are allowed to say what they are feeling and do it anonymously. I think that’s really important.

They are little shits at that age, it does get better

I wouldn't worry too much tbh. Focus on the behaviour rather than her personality. Decide what you're prepared to tolerate and stamp down hard on anything outside of this.

Your DD sounds strong-willed, feisty and confident and unfortunately children like this often come across as being less 'nice' and 'naughtier' than more placid or more timid children of the same age because they are not afraid to put themselves out there to get what they want (and this may be at odds with what the adults round about them want). It doesn't mean that other children aren't thinking the same thoughts, it just means that they're less likely to act on them.

Most children of this age are complete egoists. Their world revolves around them and it's all "me, me, me". Although they're starting to develop empathy for others, different children will develop this at different rates and in any case empathy isn't fully developed until the early 20s! So you can't necessarily expect emotions like gratitude and consideration for others' feelings. What you can do is set out clear behavioural expectations (no hitting, shouting, moaning) and impose annoying consequences when these are breached so that your DD learns that it is easier and more rewarding to comply with expected social norms even if she's not afraid to breach them. She may not yet have the emotional maturity to understand the reasons behind them, but that will hopefully come later.

Do you let her set the tone with her behaviour? E.g. she starts off with rude words and a grumpy nature, and then you follow suit and it just becomes a spiral of negativity?

Simply tell her until she changes the way she is speaking to you you will ignore her, then do it. Cone time to leave the house pick her up and put her in the car even if she is in pyjamas. A couple of days and the problem will be solved if you stay firm

DD was similar, she was a glorious 2 and 3 year old, I (metaphorically) patted myself on the back for raising such a delightful, happy, polite, patient and kind child.

Then she hit 4 - and she went WILD, she was contrary, shouty, argumentative, critical - I still don't know where it came from, we are not a shouty, argumentative or critical family. I find shouting really stressful, so when she shouted, I sometimes shouted in response, just to get the shouting to stop (yeah, I know).

As she's got a little older (she's now 6) - it has improved, but she still has a much shorter temper, and is more critical than either DH or me.

All we can do is model good behaviour, inform her when her tone is inappropriate and request that she re-states what she means in a better way, and when pushed, or if she doesn't listen, implement consequences.

Parenting is brutal sometimes, and I tell myself that she is smart, she is fair, she is loving - and she will learn to moderate her behaviour.

My daughter of the same age is exactly the same. Adorable and spirited and fun but she can be rude and completely unreasonable. It makes daily life very hard, I’m hoping she grows out of it. The crying over the slightest thing is exhausting.

My 4yo sounds similar! In my better moments, I assume that he's telling me "I'm finding being a 4yo person in the world quite hard right now". Other times, I have to have a little time out or I'll just get mad.

I think what has helped for us has been building clearer boundaries around his behaviour. "This is not how we talk to people, we do not shout/demand/etc, we ask kindly/at this volume, if you do this again x will happen". I think it helps him to know what behaviour isn't acceptable, what he should do instead, and what will happen if it continues. Sometimes it's like wading through mud and it feels like we're not making any progress and other times I see him trying very hard to moderate his behaviour and I am encouraged. I try to be mindful of changes in his life, being tired and hungry, as they still have a big impact and we talk a lot about emotions "how do you feel? Are you angry/frustrated? When you feel angry, you can do this (example) but you cannot do this (example) because we do nut hurt people/call people unkind names". I think it takes a lot of time and consistency and you may do many of these things already but I hope our experience helps (I think this is all completely normal!).

In the morning, she’ll wake up and straightaway shout downstairs to dh, who is getting ready to leave for work, that she wants this or that, she’s very demanding and shouts and cries, then Dh gets cross back, she won’t wait a second and gets so angry.
If you're honest with yourself, how do you deal with her and things in general when you're angry and frustrated. Your daughter seems to be reflecting back your husband's behaviour. She will learn far more from what you two model to her than anything else. If you get and angry and shout, then of course she will do that too.

@Skinnermarink Yes, I’m worried this is part of the issue, I often think Dh is too hard on her and he thinks we need to be tougher and that she’s walking all over us

@Lightattheendofthetunnel100 Thank you for saying this 🙏

@marykay1 Do I need to be stricter?

I just wanted to say you are not alone - my daughter is 3 and a half. When she's in a good mood she's so much fun and is absolutely hilarious but at other times she will cry at literally anything, the smallest most silliest thing multiple times a day and it's really really hard to like her at these moments.

She may well just be really hungry - mornings in our house are often a bit tense and hard until everyone has eaten and drank something. My DD is a different child after breakfast.

I do breakfast first job before anything else in a morning - or hand her a banana and glass of milk straight away if I need to sort something else first.

She may be coming down with a bug or something that is making her irritable. Or it could well just be a phase of development. Just try and be calm, consistent and kind in interactions and I'm sure it will pass.

Check out biglittlefeelings on instagram or facebook. They are a good example of how you can stay firm and maintain boundaries while not being strict of mean.

@Lightattheendofthetunnel100 Some really great tips, thank you

@pewtypie This is my worry and what Dh says…I always feel I’m trying to override her and nothing works

I remember a close friend who's a psychologist saying when you have a baby everyone warns you about the terrible twos, but no-one mentions the fucking fours. 😂but true.

Model good behaviour, be patient, try to keep your sense of humour. This will pass.

Set boundaries and so t give in. Consequences for bad behaviour

I was terrible at discipline when my dc were little and I regret that now but if you have had any dealings with a difficult child, it is a completely different experience to having an easy-going child. So maybe you do need to be stricter but also she might not grow out of that behaviour so brace yourself for the long run.

A couple of things stand out to me, OP.

One is that you have brought your DD up to speak nicely, have manners etc. That's obviously what we all do - but IME there are some parents whose method for doing this is "oh darling, you mustn't hurt Mummy", rather than being very clear about there being some behaviours which are unacceptable.

I was also struck by you saying that your DD wants for nothing. There is no correlation between a child having every material advantage and them behaving nicely. In the nicest possible way, it sounds as if you have spoilt her a bit.

At her age, it is perfectly ok for there to be natural consequences for hitting/screaming/rudeness. If she shouts at you, you can't hear her. One of mine was a whinger and I used to keep asking her to repeat what she was saying in a proper voice because I couldn't understand her whingey voice. If she didn't repeat it in a proper voice, she didn't get to do whatever it was.

I think you might need to be firmer and clearer with your DD. If you had more than one child, you'd have a bit less time not to be.

It depends what you mean by stricter. Having clear firm boundaries is important both to you and her. If you say you're leaving the park after five more slides then it's important to stick to that. But I wouldn't go with a Supernanny style time outs or confiscation of items. I'd go with the idea that all feels are ok, but all behaviour aren't. It's ok to feel angry but it's not ok to shout. Validating her feelings, but enforcing the boundary anyway. You can give closed choices which might sometimes work. Someone above suggested How to Talk so Kids Will Listen which might really help.

Dd just isn't very nice.

So first of all that thinking is not helping. Trust your kid is good and your interpretation of her behaviour will start shifting immediately.

You need to see behind her words/ behaviour, name her feeling and give it your most generous interpretation - may be, she's being like that to daddy in the morning, because she doesn't want him to go to work?
Empathise. Yes, it's hard to lose a game. You didn't want that (mummy playing 'wrong') to happen.
Role play to teach managing feelings. Pretend losing, pretend being upset and later take a deep breath and use calming words, etc. all as part of a game.
Boundaries - "I'm not going to let you hit me". Block hands. Firm but respectful.
Anticipate some meltdowns, talk about what's going to happen to minimise disappointment.

Parenting is hard! Children do not think/ function like adults. It's all part of their development. You need to alter your expectations. It is very normal and nothing is 'wrong' with her.

Lots of parenting books as pp's mentioned.