Dd just isn’t very nice.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

I know that sounds awful to say.
I love my Dd, just turned 4 more than anything in the world. She’s bright, funny, motivated, independent and can be v loving and sweet.
For quite a while now…maybe since 3.6 years old, she’s been so difficult, shouts when doesn’t get her own way, highly strung etc…there’s usually crying and an awful start to the day most mornings. She’s also great fun and full of energy…but these outbursts and the way she speaks are bringing me down. We’ve always brought her up to speak nicely and have manners etc but I find her shouting ‘I’m not going to listen to you!’ And ‘Be quiet!’ etc so much these days. I feel like so many things are a battle, is this normal, what am I doing wrong? I miss the more pleasant side of her!

I mean this kindly OP, but you need to toughen up a bit and not take things she says to heart so much. She is just a little kid figuring out the world.

Please don’t be stricter - you will probably it make it worse! Have you read about the positive parenting approach? It is widely acknowledged by many organisations including the UN as being an excellent framework for parenting. Google and read a little bit about it. There are also books like “How to Speak so Little Kids will listen and Listen So Little Kids will Speak” that are literally life changing for many parents. I found it such a relief to read as it aligned with my experience of not wanting to be mean and shouty but wanting my kids to behave well.

My 4 year old is similar. He can be shouty, defiant, bossy, cheeky, adorable. He can turn on the charm though and his teachers love him. I think he likes to be in charge and gets fed up of being told what to do all the time, being 2nd fiddle to his older brother. If I'm honest, I don't think he gets enough quality, 121 attention from us, that is just what he, a 4 year old, wants, and this is partly why he behaves the way he does. I also think this is a phase that all 3/4 year olds go through, trying to assert themselves and figure out what type or person they are. He annoys the heck out of me at times but I love him to bits. I try to pick my battles, plan ahead so I'm not stressing and making the atmosphere worse, give him lots of choices to balance out the number of times he's having to stick to other people's rules all day. Tell him how much I love him at least once a day and talk about how good he was making certain decision or trying hard with xyz.
My advice would be try not to define her by how she is behaving during this phase, labeling her (even if just inside your own head) as difficult or naughty, they pick up on that and can start defining themselves as not nice or not likeable. A really good read for me has been How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so kids will talk, by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. Good luck, deep breaths.

OP at some point it's natural to feel this when raising kids. Don't be so hard on yourself . As for reading a book on the subject , I was so busy being a parent I didn't have time to read a book 😂

My 4 year old has just gone through this stage and I think (hope) we’ve finally got through the worst of it. I’ve had it all, screaming tantrums, throwing things, hitting me. Best way we got through it was to give her some space to feel her emotions and then once she had settled, we would sit down and talk it through and set our expectations and explain what behaviour is not ok, but acknowledge her feelings, then have a big hug and carry on with your day as if it never happened. It’s so hard, but you’ll get through it. Also, felt like she was always an angel for everyone else, but as soon as she was home, she would turn. But see it as a good thing that your daughter feels comfortable and safe with you enough to express all her emotions.

You sound clueless! She is 3 and trying to find her place in the world. No one comes into the world well behaved… surely your parents spent time teaching you norms and how to behave politely

it sounds like she is learning that she has a voice, opinion and independence. That requires gentle guidance … not you having a melt down.

might be worth you considering why your daughter is triggering you so much

Absolutely! It would be for her own good too. It would teach her in future how to set boundaries and stick to them. If you don't you will have to deal with this for a long time.

Ignore her don't give her any attention when she does it. Give her attention when she's behaving. As long as she's in a safe place just walk away. Obviously not possible when out and about.

Sounds like my now 11 year old at the same age. She’s is highly anxious and this comes out as anger. Is she a perfectionist?

I think you’re ascribing too much intent to her. She’s little and I would recommend reading a book by Dan Siegel called ‘The Whole Brain Child’. It helps have a more neutral and developmental stance. Parenting pushes all kinds of triggers we have as well and it gets messy sometimes. She’s doing the best she can with the skills she has. If things stay difficult then Ross Greene ‘The Explosive Child’ is good too but a bit premature for such a little one.

Sounds completely normal for three.

I'd also add (and this is really only in response to the title of this post) that "nice" really isn't all that. Decent, honourable, respectful of others etc etc- all great. But I think there's a big social pressure for girls to be "nice" (in the sense of amenable, pliable, quiet) and it's worth trying to resist it as much as possible. Obviously that doesn't mean she gets to shout "I'm not going to listen you!" though 😁

Also if she has just started school. Some children can be perfectly behaved all day at school. But when they get home that's when they release they're emotions and frustrations.

Both a friend and my SIL sailed through the toddler years with their DC and then hit 4 and it all went to shit. The rest of us who'd been dealing with all this crap since about 18mo were all like "yeah join the club".

I think how we react as parents is the big thing - there's a sweet spot to find in terms of getting it right, and you obviously don't always get it right every time. Their behaviour is often a reaction to their world, not necessarily about you.

3-4 year olds are built to push boundaries. They’re learning so much about the world their emotions can fry their brains. My eldest has always been prone to being a bit dramatic. At 3 we had door slamming, howling about how unfair her life was etc. A few years down the road, she is wonderful, incredibly driven and very creative. The big thing for her is getting enough peer social interaction and her 3s happened during lockdown which was a disaster. If she doesn’t have that social stimulation and attention she is prone to being quite hard work.

My current 3yo is much more placid and steady. She is not a screamer but will choose to just ignore me and pretend she can’t hear me. She is much sneakier and calculated in how she pushes boundaries. She’ll just quietly go and do something she’s not supposed to do when I’m distracted rather than argue with me like her sister.

A you access a parenting course?
In all your posts it comes across as you are just accepting this behaviour. I wouldn’t tolerate being hit or shouted at. Shouting down the stairs is unacceptable if you want to speak to someone come down.
It sounds like a firmer routine would help head things off. If mornings are a pinch point and she’s shouting down the stairs then alter the routine - can she help set breakfast out night before.
Mine is a lot older now but super nanny used to be popular - that style of firm expectations, set routine so she isn’t over tired or hungry and praising the good.

@Energydrink She’s 4 actually. Thanks, I really don’t see myself as clueless, up until recently, I thought I had it pretty much sussed. We’re all human though, aren’t we

@Tiredalwaystired She does like to get everything right, yes. She just has no patience and gets very cross very quickly

It sounds completely normal. To be honest it's more worrying when a 4 year old is still clingy and needy as they haven't moved beyond the baby stage.

You should give her boundaries and not let it get to you. She'll be fine!

Also look at why? Eg the dad thing in the morning is probably her wanting to spend time with him before he goes out but she’s 4 and can’t articulate that. Can he move some of his work prep do they get some time together 1-1 eg she helps him make his coffee.

@Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled oh no sounds like both you and her are having a tough time ! has something changed for her or is she picking up these behaviours from peers?
she is a kid and will not know how to express emotions in a healthy way and has to be taught what is right/wrong/unacceptable and you have to explain to her when something she does is not ok and help her understand boundaries and develop empathy. do you have a rewards system (star chart or red/orange/green or something else) at home?
you can try and explain 'feelings' to her and verbalise when she is upset/frustrated. also - have to be realistic - she is too little to understand the concept of patience so yes, it is ok to be cross but she can't be hitting and has to be told firmly...probably just going through a phase of testing boundaries and needs some reassurance !!

I think with being strict it is important to model the behaviour and boundaries that you set.

Not shouting at people in the house - fine it is a clearly defined boundary and rule which should be in place BY EVERYONE

Manners again fine to implement as a boundary but model and follow them yourselves

What are you overriding her on?

Patience - again model it and follow it yourself. Getting cross just shows her being cross is acceptable

And I agree with her Dad finding time in the morning - the more you push against what is in effect a simple request the harder it is. Clearly defined parameters

@UniversalTruth

‘Then I have book recommendation - how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk. See if it helps.’

I second this recommendation!

Also ‘liberated parents, liberated children’ by the same authors. Just ordered them again actually - must have lent them out at some point. They were invaluable when my DD was the same age as yours, and ever since really.

Well parenting is tough. You can't just call your kid a bad person because she grows out of a cute/ easy phase. If you feel like this about 4, how wil you manage the teenage years!

All this talk of power struggles, over powering etc is really not good in my opinion. If you make parenting about “winning” you might(!!) get the behaviour you want but end up with a damaged child. Maybe try and bit more empathy and communication. She’s angry and lashing out, it’s your job as a parent to acknowledge her feelings and find out why she feels this way. Not tell her she’s wrong and must be over powered into your way of doing things.

I always said that it is perfectly possible to adore your child whilst, at the same time, not liking their behaviour atall! And I did find it helped me, to make that distinction between them and their behaviour.

In your shoes, @Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled, I’d focus on rewarding and encouraging the good behaviour, whilst ignoring the bad - or simply responding calmly to it - eg. “It is rude to tell someone to shut up, dd. I’ll listen to you when you are talking nicely to me” - and then, if she does respond more politely, encourage that - “That was very nice, darling - yes, I’ll come and play with you”.

And take a deep breath, and remind yourself that this too shall pass.

{{{hugs}}}