Dd just isn’t very nice.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

I know that sounds awful to say.
I love my Dd, just turned 4 more than anything in the world. She’s bright, funny, motivated, independent and can be v loving and sweet.
For quite a while now…maybe since 3.6 years old, she’s been so difficult, shouts when doesn’t get her own way, highly strung etc…there’s usually crying and an awful start to the day most mornings. She’s also great fun and full of energy…but these outbursts and the way she speaks are bringing me down. We’ve always brought her up to speak nicely and have manners etc but I find her shouting ‘I’m not going to listen to you!’ And ‘Be quiet!’ etc so much these days. I feel like so many things are a battle, is this normal, what am I doing wrong? I miss the more pleasant side of her!

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@Autumninnewyork That’s exactly it, it’s so hard, I often feel really upset by it and I can see it’s stressing Dh and I out and life doesn’t feel that great anymore, some days it can be almost constant

[Icanstillrecallourlastsummer]

I think it's unfair to label a 4 yo as not a nice person for behaviour that is pretty typical for that age. It's pretty mean really. Try look at the behaviour as just that, behaviour. Not something that defines her. And then deal with it appropriately - there are lots of books and instagram accounts on managing toddler behaviour.

[Lightattheendofthetunnel100]

How is her sleep and diet and does she get enough exercise? Is she on a tablet a lot (if so stop that)? Has she just started a new school or nursery? If all of the above is ok then it could be developmental.

One of my dds was so sunny and smiley at two and didn’t have any toddler tantrums at all. Then just before she turned four she started to cry and shout and become frustrated.

Four year olds are much more capable of doing things physically, their fine motor skills are much better, but they haven’t caught up emotionally. In my case though, I was holding my dd back without realising it! She was telling me she was ready for more responsibility and independence but I was still treating her like a 3 year old.

So make sure she is in a bed not a cot, that she sits at the table with proper cutlery, that she gets dressed by herself if she can, that she hangs up her own bag and puts her plates in the dw. That sort of thing. And give her more control over small decisions like which direction to take in the park, where to go for an ice cream.

I am involved with horses and I sometimes watch groups of 4 and 5 year olds in the summer handling mini ponies, sorting out tack, brushing and feeding them. Honestly, you would be surprised at how good they are at it and how much they can do with a bit of support and direction.

If your dd is bright and energetic, she may be telling you that she is ready to move on to do more interesting things and to have more autonomy.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps I have not said I really dislike my daughter at all, I love her more than anything on earth, her behaviour just isn’t very nice at all for a while now and I feel she’s changed. To be constantly shouted at, hit and with daily screaming and shouting and sometimes the minute we wake up, is v v difficult
She has so much love and affection from us, has an amazing life and wants for nothing, I just don’t understand what’s going wrong

[Thereisnolight]

DD went through this phase. It got so I dreaded spending a day with her. One day I snapped and yes I did shout back then put myself elsewhere, excluding her, until she stopped screaming, and basically overrode her. It didn’t stop her shouting - this went on for months - but I didn’t have to martyr myself and listen to it. I would ask her what was wrong but if she wouldn’t tell me I went ahead and overrode.

In between times I was always very loving and cuddled and complimented her a lot and we talked and did lots of things together. I always apologised for shouting and said it was because I couldn’t control myself and that was my fault (hint hint).

She’s 10 now and we have an excellent relationship. She can still be high-strung and moody but these days there’s no shouting, we talk it through and I also apologise if I’ve been snappy or done something wrong.

Shouting and excluding her wasn’t recommended parenting but I’m not a saint. Give yourself a break.

[Cheesybreadnom]

Do not label a three year old as not a nice person, it’s unfair to her.

It sounds more like your struggling with her behaviour, but these kind of labels that you think of your child as can stick in your head and affect your relationship as she grows up and that’s not fair to her.

Obviously speak to her every time she displays this behaviour (which all sounds very normal). Make sure she’s happy in nursery (if she goes) as this can affect home behaviours. Have a look at what she is watching and see if anything is influencing her behaviour.

She will likely grow out of it but it all sounds fairly normal.

[Rosehugger]

You need to get it right out of your head now that she isn't a nice person. Some of her behaviour isn't nice or is difficult. You need to do some parenting and praise the good behaviour and be very patient.

She knows that you don't like her and that's why she is acting up.

[Thereisnolight]

Also yes, as a pp said, choose your battles. Let her mostly do whatever she wants - but stick to your red lines and don’t be overly patient and lovely with any stroppiness.

[The2Omicronnies]

My son (age 7, but been like this for years) definitely has really unpleasant qualities, so I know where you’re coming from. He is demanding, impatient, cocky and thinks the world is against him. He argues with literally every request. My daughter, on the other hand, is ridiculously kind, thoughtful and just so lovely all the time. They are hugely different and I’ve just had to accept that this is his personality. I reason with him, and I explain why certain behaviours are not acceptable and that people in the real world won’t tolerate it. I try and guide him as best I can, but ultimately some people are easy going and some aren’t and he will make his choices in life. I don’t think I can “fix him” if that makes sense.

It’s not been easy and when we’re in a rush I do get impatient with him…we’re only human and you’re dealing with a difficult personality.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@Lightattheendofthetunnel100 She never stops 🙈she’s so energetic and out everyday in the fields for dog walks etc. She’s just started pre school part time, but was like this before it. She’s really independent and has been for ages, she’s been doing lots by herself for so long-making breakfast etc, she gets angry if I do it so of course I allow that. She’s eaten with own plate and cutlery for ages, gets herself ready etc

[Autumninnewyork]

One thing that I found really helped was sloooowing down with DC. Really taking time to fully engage, eye contact, lots of calm. When a (much loved) child is screaming and/or hitting our basic fight or flight instinct is going to be triggered on a very basic physiological level. It’s very hard to remain fully engaged as we basically want it to just stop and/or get away and it’s hard to be fully present. I was really helped by one of te early chapters of the Philippa Perry book ‘the book you wish your parents had read’; and ‘how to talk so little kids will listen’. They helped me to slow down and really be with my DC through all his behaviours. I feel sick with guilt sometimes when I think of how frustrated I sometimes got when he was 2. I mostly rode it out but sometimes didn’t do a great job :(

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@Lightattheendofthetunnel100 No tablets, occasionally plays games on my phone, she watches some tv everyday-in the morning and in the evening. The rest of the day is filled with playing, walks, shopping, crafts etc

[Rosehugger]

DDs could be a pain at that age but usually when they were hungry or tired, and DD1 was feeling insecure after I had DD2. I never thought they were bad people though (why the fuck would you?) I thought it was just something pretty normal for their age.

Your daughter needs to know she is loved, above all.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/22/oliver-james-love-bombing-children

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@Cheesybreadnom Shes 4.
I mean that she’s not very nice at the moment.

[The2Omicronnies]

Also, just to add, I always say that if I only had my daughter, I’d literally never raise my voice / feel frustrated as parent. But my son changes the dynamic totally. People who are saying your daughter is “just a child” probably don’t have a difficult one to deal with. It’s easy to say it when you have no experience of it. If you have a shout child, it pervades every moment you’re together; you’re on eggshells waiting for the next issue.

[MissMaple82]

It's normal behaviour - how you deal with it though is paramount for the future

[Thereisnolight]

DD remembers her screaming phase and tells me it usually started when she was angry about something but then she would deliberately prolong it just to see what I’d do. Little monkey!

However one thing worth mentioning…I rewatched an old video of her when she was about 3. I was videoing her because she looked so cute. She pushed her lip out and told me to stop filming. This made her look even cuter so I kept filming, while laughing. Then she shouted at me to stop, then I became annoyed with her (all on video). At the time, I remember, I had no insight that I was doing anything wrong. In my head, she was the one who was being stroppy. Watching it years later I can see quite clearly who was wrong. So worth bearing in mind.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@Rosehugger Do some parenting???
I do like her!! I’ve never said I don’t, as I’ve said many times, I adore her, she’s everything to us.

[Skinnermarink]

Are there any consequences for when are speaks or shouts at you in this way? When she goes to hit you?

she is NOT too young to understand unacceptable behaviour. Would she react in this manner at nursery or pre school? If not it’s because she probably responds well to structure and boundaries.

I wouldn’t tolerate being spoken to like this by a child, albeit a small one.

[needthiswilderness]

I would gently say that conceiving of a 3/4 year old as a "nice" or "not nice" person is not fair or helpful, and could actively damage her and your relationship. It is applying adult moral values and expectations of behaviour to a tiny child, who is not yet capable, for instance, of empathy. IMO it's much more normal and healthy for a 3/4 year old to talk back and push boundaries than to be meek and polite.. the latter would worry me more in the long run! I'd suggest reading something on child development to at least put your mind at ease about her behaviour - this is a good one: www.amazon.co.uk/Beginnings-Psychology-Development-Parents-0-5-year-olds-ebook/dp/B09TPCQ2B9?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[EmeraldShamrock1]

It's probably a phase if it hasn't been long, correct her by using a lot of positive encouragement.

My DD is really sweet, my DS is a grumps, always moaning or whinging, cries non stop until he could learned to talk/moan.

He is demanding, bossy, and never satisfied for long.

It's difficult to have patience especially in the morning as he wakes like a bull.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@The2Omicronnies Thats exactly it, I do feel on edge. She also gets very frustrated if she’s doing something and can’t…she just snaps..from 0-10 in anger. She was never like this and was quite laid back..

[AccountDeactivated]

Your adult husband needs to not ‘get cross’ with his tiny child for bog standard developmental stages. Don’t allow an angry male to be near your kid. Educate yourselves on child development and how to parent.

[Autumndaysandthegrassisjewelled]

@MissMaple82 How would you recommend to deal with it? I’m scared of getting it wrong. I never used to question my parenting…now I feel I’m not doing a great job

[GreenFingersWouldBeHandy]

What do you do if she screams, shouts and hits you?

You are the parent here. Act like one.

And from the title of your thread, it sounds as though you have already labelled her.

My Mother did this to me; still feeling the effects 48 years later. I was 'fat', my sister was 'stupid' and my brother was 'clumsy'.

Don't make her feel this way. Learn to deal with your own insecurities or take parenting classes.