To wonder when the UK government plan to revisit the dangerous dogs act?

[EbbyEbs]

Woman killed by American Bulldogs.

This is just another victim to add to the list of dog fatalities in recent years - yet another American Bulldog.

Britain must have one of the most pathetic dog regulations in the world - only 3 breeds in the list and two of those breeds most people have never heard of.

When will the government do something?? How many more people need to die?

And it’s not just about banning breeds - they need to tighten up the laws in owning dogs in the first place.

Many states in America have tight regulations around many breeds common in the UK including Shar Pei, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Dobermann and even German shepherds.

AIBU to think Britain needs to wake up to the dangers of irresponsible dog ownership?

There ought to be a dog DNA database too, so that it's easier to trace those who fail to pick up.

It's the breeding and the upbringing rather than the breed
Breed two shitty temperament dogs together, bring the puppy up in a chaotic household, not enough exercise, child pulling on the tail, nowhere to get away.. it's a recipe for disaster
I see them around my area with teenagers goading the dogs, hanging them by the jaws from trees, getting them to fight and then what, they take them home and expect them to be a happy family dog? And then breed from them!

If you put two well bred nice natured staffies together, have a puppy that you exercise regularly, train, give them the right environment, a space of their own, teach children how to act around them etc etc then that's going to be much lower risk

Who is going to pay for this?
I see countless dog shits on my walk every day. A lot have been trod into the ground.
Taking DNA samples, and chasing them up sounds like a huge amount of work.
How small a sample would it need? If my dog has the shits, there is no way I can pick everything up. Am I going to be prosecuted for the 10ml of dog shite on the grass?

We need to clamp down on dog owners too. I'm sick of walking in the park with DD, who is nervous around dogs, and having a dog (whatever breed!) come running over - making her incredibly nervous - while some feckless owner shouts 'oh he's harmless don't worry' and some pathetic attempts of calling the dog back. It's not harmless to her, it's frightening!

If your dog is unreliable when recalling, they should stay on the lead at all times. If you don't train your dog to come when you call, it should be on the lead.

And that's without starting on the ones who don't pick up the dog shit.

American Bully's are notorious for killing people. They should be banned absolutely. But there is so much to be said for the owners too.

I know that my parents' cat has really wound up next door's dog before. She went and sat in the middle of their garden, causing the dog to go bananas at the back door. The owner thought that he'd end up bursting through the glass.

If I owned a dog that posed a risk to cats, I'd be cat proofing the boundary.

I wouldn't. Cat owners need to take responsibility for their pets.

I can't find the poster who said it, but I agree with;

A database of ALL dog owners, the amount of dogs they have, which breed, weight, temperament...

Mandatory training (receiving a license on completions, renewable yearly with updates on dog - info held on microchip)

Dog wardens who can stop check owners randomly to check on license ownership, hand out on the spot fines for not picking up dog mess/irresponsible dog ownership/lack of valid license...

Huge fines for any injuries inflicted by dog.

Prison for violating license/injuries inflicted/owning a dangerous dog...

Obvious murder/manslaughter charge if dog kills someone.

But these things cost money that isn't available.

@DdraigGoch It's up to the cat owner to ensure that their cat doesn't get itself in to danger.

The dog owner shouldn't have to worry about another persons animal.

Obviously that's bad parenting and bad behaviour. But given the consequences for the child (if they did this to a big dangerous breed) could easily be death, and given we can't ban either children or bad parents, surely the sensible thing would be for the dog not to be exposed to the child? Just as, in an ideal world, a child encountering a gun would leave it alone but lots of them might just pick it up and play with it - the sensible thing, surely, is to prohibit or severely limit gun ownership and put the owners on the gun owner to ensure their gun does not come into contact with children?

Personally my thought is - you are the one out in public with a dog. Why don't you protect it by keeping it away from the children? At which point it becomes that age old argument between dog people and other people as to who has more rights to public space, human children or dogs. You can guess where I would fall in that debate!

From my perspective, any adult who approaches a dog (like any adult who owns a dog) has accepted the risk they are taking.

American bulldogs? Those are historically stock dogs, I don't think they are common particularly in dog attack situations, any more than other types of heelers and stock dogs.

In any case, no, dog breed bans aren't really very effective and so don't make a lot of sense. It's not all that easy to even be sure what breed many dogs are, lots are mixes, and there are actually a lot of different dogs that bite or can be aggressive. Some get more press and there are also lots of examples of dogs that bite being totally mis-identified in the media. People freak out about pitbulls - which actually tend to be good dogs with kids - but you don't often see dogs like chows or akita's banned, though they are common biters, and also big strong dogs.

And there are tons of breeds with a high prey drive, particularly in the terrier family.

Any dogs that are let to roam in groups, or taught to fight, are high risk.

I think one of the results of people treating pets more like people is that they don't always treat dogs with the care they should. Any dog can be a risk and that needs to be kept in mind.

Lots of dog breeds will attack cats. It's not uncommon with boxers, but it's especially common with breeds used to hunt small animals. Unsurprisingly, I'd say. If you produce a breed in order to keep rodents down or protect livestock from animals they will have a tendency to respond to small animals in that way.

How many people have been killed by a cat?

In the USA there are a millions of guns and only a small minority of weapons will be involved in a killing. I don't see any difference to the arguments against excessively liberal gun ownership. This is the old "guns don't kill people, people do" argument.

I mean on a bad day I might find it therapeutic to go out and throw plates at the garden wall. Fine if that makes me feel better, my plates, my property. If I cut myself or break my garden gnome, that's my lookout. Doesn't mean I can go to the local park and do it, and if someone's kid runs on front of me, well, their parent should have taught them to look where they're going right?

Prey drive and aggression are two very different things. Prey drive is about catching food / eating. It is the same as a cat hunting a mouse. Dogs don't usually "hunt" humans, but it can happen on occasion.

Aggression is about the dog defending itself or territory. This can be directed to people or dogs.

The problem for dogs is people pure and simple .
Any old person breeds for money .
Any old person buys an unsuitable dog to keep it in unsuitable surroundings
Not nice people keep terrifying dogs to compensate for their own inadequacies in life .
Stupid people keep multiple dogs in a 20ft back yard where dogs go stir crazy and start being aggressive to let off steam .
All these attacks happen in rough sink estate areas not middle class homes .
Banning breeds and bringing in licences will have no effect . The same type of people will want a status symbol dog in a tiny premise and not train or socialise it . Anyone could have foreseen 5 American bulldogs in a tiny property is a disaster waiting to happen .
It's people who are too stupid to understand dogs and their needs creating these deaths .

I am absolutely not dismissive of mental health problems (for pretty obvious reasons). I am sorry for your struggles which I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve - you might just as well disbelieve me about mum, and why on earth would I lie about that?

I don't doubt your dog helps you a lot, just as my mum's animals were dearer to her than family and kept her going probably longer than she otherwise would have managed. Again maybe therapy dogs could be part of that group of working dogs. I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily work in the moment. It's a logical thought process -my dog needs me therefore - which someone may well not have access to when deep in a depressive or psychotic or manic episode.

I also think pets in general but especially dogs can be a burden on those with MH and other difficulties due to the limitations they put on one to prioritise their needs. For example in the months leading up to her death my sister and I both asked our mum to come and stay with one of us for a while (couldn't go to her long term as both had v young kids). She said she couldn't leave the animals behind. They cost money she didn't have which was another stress on her. It's not all positives.

You know how often I encounter a horse in the children's play area/the high street/the beach/anywhere I might be out and about with my kids? Never that's how often.

Do you know of any cases of fatal attacks on children by cats? Even one?

Dog owners come up with all these bullshit false equivalences but there are none - the only totally optional very dangerous animal habitually loose in public spaces completely unavoidable unless you never leave your house, are dogs. When loose horses start running across my local park you may have a point.

It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is. Dog Vs child the child is in danger of loss of life, not the dog. And dogs are everywhere.

Because reservoirs and roads are necessary for society to function. Dogs aren't.

Also this "what if a child runs up out of nowhere and clobbers my innocent dog" stuff is a total red herring anyway. The problem far more often (especially in fatal attacks) is badly trained aggressive dogs attacking people.

As I understand it a lot of victims are young babies. If only someone had disciplined those tiny immobile newborns properly eh?

My dog was. I turned down supported housing because I would have had to give my dog up. My MH team were amazing though, and worked hard to keep me at home with my dog. They knew how important she was to me... and still is.

Not a red herring at all.. if the kid had connected his foot with my dog's face...at the speed she was going... it may well have killed her.

There is nothing wrong with teaching children how to behave around animals...be that something small like a bunny (don't pick them up.. you can break their spine!), ask a dog owner before approaching their dog, don't stand behind a horse, don't flap about in front of a cow, don't go in the sea when there is a shark warning etc.

Dogs are a popular pet. There is nothing wrong at all with teaching all family members what an unhappy dog looks like. I do think that a lot of these very serious dog incidents could be prevented if there was better education about dog body language.

I'm very glad to hear you have good MH support. It's so very often shite (as in my mum's case, there was an investigation into her care that found serious failings). And I wouldn't want to take something away from you that gives you solace. But as a parent I have had to defend my kids from our of control dogs so often, I read stories like this one in the press and literally lie awake sometimes thinking "what if that encounter had gone the other way?'. It's a real, real problem and people get entrenched in extreme positions. My priority is protecting my kids. And I just find it mad that literally anyone can own something as dangerous as a dog and face no scrutiny or restrictions on ownership until it actually harms someone. There's so many things I can teach my children. So many ways I can protect them. But unless we never leave the house, a dog can run up and attack them any time, anywhere, and there would be almost nothing I could do. The number of occasions I've had to scream for owners several meters away to get their dogs under control as they corner/growl at/jump up at me and my children out of literally nowhere - well you wouldn't believe me because you are a dog person. When you don't like dogs, when you don't have that "aww" reaction to them, it's bloody terrifying.

My kids, btw, would NEVER approach a dog, on lead or not. I mean the toddler is not always obedient, but the second I see a dog without a lead I pick her up immediately anyway because of the number of times she and her sister have been jumped up at. My 5yo has not picked up my fear at all, but she knows to stand still with her arms at her sides when approached by any dog. But this slightly gives me the rage because no dog should ever be in a position to approach us, we don't want anything to do with them because they are potentially dangerous - but we can't avoid them because people let them off lead and don't recall them when they run up to us because "they're friendly, they just want t say hello, blah blah" or they just aren't paying any attention. I shouldn't have to deal with that situation because people should bloody control their dogs. If they did with any kind of regularity I'd be a lot less militant I'm sure. But I am SICK of it.

And btw I live in a "naice" middle class area so this "it's only chavs" thing doesn't wash. Irresponsible dog ownership crosses the class spectrum sadly.

I shouldn't have to teach my kid what an unhappy dog looks like - we don't have one, she'd never approach one, she's been taught to stand still with her hands down if one approaches her - if people minded their dogs properly there should never be an occasion that she was in touching distance of one. But they don't.