To wonder when the UK government plan to revisit the dangerous dogs act?

[EbbyEbs]

Woman killed by American Bulldogs.

This is just another victim to add to the list of dog fatalities in recent years - yet another American Bulldog.

Britain must have one of the most pathetic dog regulations in the world - only 3 breeds in the list and two of those breeds most people have never heard of.

When will the government do something?? How many more people need to die?

And it’s not just about banning breeds - they need to tighten up the laws in owning dogs in the first place.

Many states in America have tight regulations around many breeds common in the UK including Shar Pei, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Dobermann and even German shepherds.

AIBU to think Britain needs to wake up to the dangers of irresponsible dog ownership?

Genuinely not trying to argue but just civilly talk about it, because I don't really have much of an answer on how to solve the problem, but...

Why would it penalise good owners? If you're a good responsible owner, then how is it a problem to get a license?

As for the last point, doesn't that go against your argument? I'm sure we all agree that driving licenses are a good idea, and a small number of people driving without a valid one doesn't mean we should get rid of licenses.

I did say several times working dogs are the exception I would make.

And they are not 'born into this world' by some sort of inevitable law of nature, they are bred deliberately by human beings. It is entirely within our power whether dogs are 'born into this world' or not. And I don't have to do a damn thing you tell me, patronising person on the internet.

And by the way you will find no end of people in the US who will argue up and down that their gun is a 'hobby', a 'sport', a 'social thing' which is very important to their wellbeing and identity, etc etc. People can always justify endangering other people if they want to keep doing what they're doing enough. Your photo of your dog? I just see teeth. And germs.

We've managed to make microchipping compulsory, so I'm sure that vets can easily charge owners for taking a saliva sample to add to the database when doing routine check-ups.

Actually, no we haven't managed to make microchipping compulsory.

The law might have been passed to say all dogs must be chipped but thousands of dogs are not chipped. The law is unenforceable and only responsible owners will get their dogs chipped.

I have had my dog for 11 years and have never had any of the various vets I've seen during that time check the microchip during routine check-ups.

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen Dogs aren't a hobby, a sport, or a social thing though. They are living creatures with just as much right to be in parks, streets, and fields as humans. They weren't invented by humans. They arguably came first. Yes, they are now bred deliberately, but so was my toddler. Both are equally alive and natural.

Righto. I'll invest in a couple of boa constrictors and let them loose in public parks then. I mean they're living creatures so surely have just as much right to be in parks, streets and fields as humans right? I mean when was the last time you head of a human being killed by a boa constrictor? They're far more likely to be hurt by a human than the other way around.

And the constant equivalence of dogs and human children is one of the absolute worst things about dog people. As if restricting a dog's freedom to do whatever it wants is anything like as reprehensible as endangering a child.

I am not sure that it's entirely true to say dogs aren't bred to kill and harm. Some dogs are specifically bred for these purposes (e.g. for hunting, protection etc).

Also a dog continues to be a living creature even after it has savaged a six month old baby to death. How far would you take this principle? Should such a dog be put down? I mean its a living creature. We don't kill human murderers. Should we be providing some sort of doggy prison and rehabilitation?

See also the rights of living sheep, cows, octopi etc. I assume you're a vegan?

I'd like to see evidence for this, especially as we now use/train dogs specifically for epileptics.

And what will you do with the pups bread to be working dogs who just don't make the grade?

Plenty labradors and German shepherd's are put forward for guide dog training. Not all of them pass the training. They don't keep their concentration enough to stop someone walking into things.
Same with police dogs and the sniffer dogs. They need to be good at doing the job and want to keep doing it.

It doesn't make them bad dogs or poorly trained compared to the average family pet.

Maybe they could be therapy dogs if they have the nature for it. Or maybe dog lovers with adequate land that they don't need to take the dog off it who want to keep them as pets could apply for them. Don't know. Not really my problem as in my ideal world there'd be no dogs at all. "but what about working dogs" is a point raised in their defence by the dog people. They could work out the practicalities of that.

Although it will never happen, nor indeed will any less extreme attempt to even slightly control dog ownership, as this country has an utterly obsessive attitude to dogs. I am in the minority. So I shall have to continue to put up with being mobbed by stupid slobbering badly trained mutts on the regular, trying to protect my kids from them, and then get called a cunt and a whore when i ask the sauntering owners to get their dog under control. This has happened to me so often now I am becoming habituated to it. Just this summer, this exact scenario, as i have described it, has happened 6 times. On two occasions the dogs snatched food out of my children's hands. On all of the occasions the dogs jumped up at me and them, scratching my kids' legs or necks (depending on size of dog). On more than half the occasions it was more than one dog, meaning I had to choose whether to protect my toddler or my 5 year old. On zero occasions was my request to the owners to get their dog(s) away from us met with a quick apology and an immediate and successful attempt to do so. on most of the occasions I was sworn at. On one memorable occasion, my children were called 'fucking rats'.

But i'll be told by the dog people I'm making it up because that's not what they want to believe.

The rats one was particularly depressing because I literally saw it coming. I went with my daughters to a local park which has some woodland and some fenced play areas. My eldest daughter asked to go to a fallen down tree near the entrance to the woodland so she could climb on it. My heart sank because I know lots of people walk their dogs off lead in the woodland, and I just KNEW (from weary experience) that at least one of them would approach us and the usual confrontation would ensue. I asked her if we could go to the fenced play area instead and she looked SO disappointed, and I just felt angry I couldn't just agree to her perfectly reasonable wish to play in the trees without worrying about being jumped on by dogs. So I relented. And within 15 minutes we were being mobbed by two dogs jumping up on us and snatching rice cakes out of my toddler's hand. And when i asked the woman who eventually emerged from the woods to get them off us, it was all the usual: "What's your problem? They're just puppies, they're just playing, they just want to say hello." When I said I don't like dogs, please get them under control, she sneers and says "You ought to control your fucking rats," with such venom. My kids hadn't done anything, they were just stood there waiting for the dogs to withdraw, listening to this vicious bitch call them names. And she had her own young son with her as well. It was awful. And before it happened, I knew it (or something just like it) would. That's how predictable it is now out and about.

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen To be honest, if you and your children were aggressively approached by dogs on 6 occasions over one summer and not once did an owner keep their dogs under control, I would suggest that perhaps you are either in a particularly antisocial area or are unknowingly in a dog park. There are loads of dogs in my local area and not once have I seen this happen where an owner didn't immediately apologize and recall their dog. You should also make more of an effort not to project your hatred and potentially fear of dogs onto your children.

I think you should also note that boa constrictors are inherently more dangerous to humans than family dogs. I certainly wouldn't say that people shouldn't have snakes as pets though.

It also doesn't matter if I'm vegan or not because that has nothing to do with my opinion on dogs being natural. That said, I'm not vegan, so nice try.

@MaybeIWillFuckOffThen
You have had more negative incidents with dogs in a matter of months than I have had in all my years on this planet.
Very unlucky

See I knew i would be told I was lying. Dog people just don't want to believe it. I live in Leicester, it's not the fanciest city in the UK but the parks we go to (Victoria Park and Knighton Park) are both in what are generally considered 'nice' areas. What on earth is a 'dog park'? Are there parks designated exclusively for the use of dog owners now??

My 5 yo understands I have a fear of dogs, she doesn't share it - I've explained it's not rational particularly and that most dogs are safe and friendly. However I have told her you don't know WHICH dogs are safe and friendly and which are not, so if approached by a strange dog she is to stand still and put her hands down until the owner appears, and only touch the dog if the owner says it's ok. She's fine with dogs. Toddler is bloody dog mad, and gets very excited and says 'doddy! doddy!' whenever she sees one. Keeps her hands to herself though.

The vegan thing is relevant because you are saying by dint of being living things, dogs have equal rights to humans in public spaces. Surely they should also have equal rights to life also (even if killers)? And surely all living things should also have such rights if all it takes is to be a living, natural thing?

Must be. Do you have a dog? Maybe off lead dogs are less likely to intimidate a person if they have a dog with them....

You're basically saying that you only want humans in parks and fields. Just because dogs live in houses with humans doesn't mean they should only ever be in their houses. What about birds? Squirrels? Cats? Bees? They come out of their homes as well.

Dogs don't and shouldn't have equal rights to humans. They aren't allowed in most indoor public spaces. They aren't sent to prison for horrendous crimes like murder, they more often than not get put down. But wishing to ban them from places like open fields is absolutely ridiculous.

I didn't suggest that you were lying about being approached either. It just sounds like a silly number of times because that is not a normal occurrence.

Someone posted a link to Wikipedia about dog fatalities, the latest year published (2015) there were two fatal dog attacks. In 2019 there were 9 million dogs. I’m not doing the maths here but death by lightning would surely be the same odds?

Just googled, usually 3 fatalities by being struck by lightning each year.

Given what utterly abusive wankers some people are, and how some dogs are brutalised to an inch of their lives, I’d say those numbers are quite low and don’t deserve a knee jerk action.

What I do support is more education for dog owners or anyone considering getting a dog. I think it should be made obvious that as well as feeding and walking your dog it’s important to include them as part of the family, help them to be emotionally stable, give advice to people about breeds (I’ve had dogs all of my life, but wouldn’t pick certain breeds because I know I can’t commit to the intensity of training or exercise, I know many pick dogs purely on appearance which to be is daft).

I know there’s a lot of fearful people on Mumsnet and it’s a shame, because dogs are really lovely - happy, giving and cheerful, they really help people!

What about birds? Squirrels? Cats? Bees? They come out of their homes as well.

None of them could kill my baby before I could do anything about it. Except maybe bees, my youngest hasn't been stung yet so I suppose could possibly be allergic - but bees play a hugely important role in the global ecosystem, without bees we don't have food, so I think they're a risk worth taking.

Privately owned fields, totally fine. Public parks or beaches where i should be able to safely play with my kids? Don't see the need. If someone doesn't have access to a large enough private space to exercise their dog, then I think they shouldn't be allowed to have a dog. Or at very least dogs should be kept on leads except on private land. Because why should their decision to accept the risk a dog presents be foisted on me and my children?

I didn't suggest that you were lying about being approached either. It just sounds like a silly number of times because that is not a normal occurrence.

SO what does that mean? That I'm making it up, or exaggerating the number of times, or somehow inviting these approaches? I'd love to know how if so so I can stop doing it! I'm literally just playing in parks with my children. It's not like I'm carrying dog biscuits in my pockets or sprinkling aniseed into the turnups of my trousers...

@bozzabollix

Just googled, usually 3 fatalities by being struck by lightning each year.

Stupid comparison as there's fuck all I can do about being struck by lightning.

You are actively going to places where there are very clearly a lot of off-lead dogs. They can legally be there. Maybe you should go to an alternate place where fewer people walk their dogs?

But why is the onus not on the dog owner to keep their dogs in sight and recall them before they make contact with me and my children? These parks are also for the use of human beings - in fact that's what they're for. The clue is in the name 'public park', it's for the public. So why can't the dog owners be reasonably expected to keep their dogs away from me, or at least get them away once I've made it clear I don't want contact without being abusive?

And again, the vast majority of dogs aren't a risk to you or your children. With an average of 2 fatalities per year, the risk is indeed so small that you're more likely to be shot in the UK where guns are banned.