To ask what people have against Labour?

[TheSmallestOneWasMadeline]

I have come across lots of people who, even while admitting that the Conservatives are far from ideal, seem to scrunch their nose up and say 'but, ew, Labour' when talking about politics.

I have to admit I dont understand what it is that people think is so terrible about them and nobody ever cares to elaborate! I always vote for them as I think their principles align pretty closely with my own even if I don't agree with absolutely e everything they stand for.

Could someone please explain what people think is so terrible about them that they would do a worse job at running the country than the Conservatives have done?

And lots of people who are ethnic minorities do think this kind of attitude is racist, and dangerous. Very similar to the way the Democrats in the US treat race issues.

I probably won't vote Conservative in the next election now, thanks to the mini-budget.

However, Labour's stance on women still makes them completely unelectable to me. Pretending there is no difference between a man an a woman, saying 'it should not be said that only women have a cervix' (Starmer), calling women who wish to protect their rights 'dinosaurs' etc. etc. is an absolute deal breaker. They are as scientifically illiterate as flat-earthers. I wouldn't vote for a party that was perfect in every other way but who wished to introduce the teaching of flat-earthism into schools. Similarly, I will not vote for a party who is in denial about biological reality.

If Labour want to die on the hill of genderism, that's up to them.

I have no doubt that they will win the next election, but I don't owe them my vote.

I like Starmer but I don't believe in the NHS or the benefits system that debilitates people to the point of helplessness. For every person using the safety net, there are helpless, institutionalised dope smokers missing out on living their lives. I don't agree with punishing successful people financially nor by the hateful sneering. MN lefties are the best example.of the snobbish, sneering and unpleasant angry little people that sum up everything that's wrong with socialism.

MN lefties are the best example.of the snobbish, sneering and unpleasant angry little people
You sound deeply hostile and partisan yourself.

@BirmaBrite well (1) they didn’t read the same subject so it’s not a direct comparison - Keir read law which has always been one of the most difficult subjects to secure a university place; (2) Leeds university has an outstanding law faculty with very high entry requirements; (3)Keir went to Oxford for post-graduate studies; (4) it’s not just about the results, it’s the whole package and Keir’s education will have given him advantages that Liz’s didn’t. Let’s face it, she isn’t the best public speaker…but public speaking wasn’t high in the agenda in Leeds comprehensive schools back in the 80’s!

Why don't Labour listen to what people are saying? Why are they so adamant that they are right and the people that don't vote for them (or vote for them while holding their noses) are wrong?

Two reasons why I don't like Labour:
1.They have tied themselves up in knots deciding what a woman is.

1. No discernable talent on the front bench

Have you called 101 yet? To report it.

@MangyInseam You might want to consider that the fact that being a Euroskeptic is no longer acceptable in Labour may relate to that change. At best it is extremely paternalistic for all of these people to claim they know better where the interests of the w/c lie.

Isn't being a Eurosceptic in any party a bit of a moot point now, given we have left the EU ? Pretty sure Boris got Brexit done and all that ?

I am going to go out on a limb and say that I believe that the best interests of the w/c probably won't be served by this particular incarnation of Conservative government. You might not agree with me, but me saying that doesn't mean I am being paternalistic, more pragmatic.

Some years back I read a book called 'Seasons in the Sun'. It was a history of the UK from 74 to 79

Thanks tompinch. That sounds interesting. I'll have a look for it.

(4) it’s not just about the results, it’s the whole package and Keir’s education will have given him advantages that Liz’s didn’t. Let’s face it, she isn’t the best public speaker…but public speaking wasn’t high in the agenda in Leeds comprehensive schools back in the 80’s!

And yet he gets slagged off for having no charisma ! Public speaking might not have been high on the agenda in Leeds comprehensive schools back in the 80's but she then went on to Oxford, worked in high positions in a number of big companies and has been in the Government in one way or another for 12 years. It's a bit 'the dog ate my homework' territory !

When Corbyn was in charge of the Labour Party the same sort of people ran amok. Some of them were the very same people, just much older.

Were they the same people though tompinch? Or were they deliberately tarred with the same brush in order to bring down Corbyn?

They have a real blind spot about women. Their attitude to gender ideology and self-ID actively endangers women. They’re also quite racist in their own way, see Rupa Huq.

They’re quite cowardly when it comes to inconvenient truths, like benefit fraud and Asian grooming gangs, and their swallowing of identity politics is chilling.

Interesting that you just skim over the issues that poster raised.

How can you defend the Rwanda policy and the comments made by Boris, and accuse others of being racist?

Seems you want to call out racism only when it suits you.

Labour laid the foundations for the economic problems this country has today. By creating a low wage economy and subsidizing employers through paying welfare to low paid workers. Result is that our economy is less automated and has lower productivity. Tories have never managed to get off this drug.
Can you explain how Labour created a low wage economy?

I’m not old enough to remember pre-Thatcher, so the only Lab government I can remember is the one that introduced the minimum wage and led a big drive to get more younger people into higher education.

There were more people working for low wages in 2010 than there were in 1997. The minimum wage IS a low wage.

@Florenz Oh God don't even think about mentioning increasing the minimum wage, that will result in the End of days, entire businesses will go bust, mass unemployment, Bank holidays being cancelled, raw sewage running through the streets, rats as big as cats, er some other really bad stuff ....

It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is. What matters is what percentage of jobs pay only minimum wage.

I can’t find any statistics that support your claim. The ONS tracks the proportion of workers in low wage jobs. There was a (small) drop in the proportion of hourly-rate, low paid workers between 1997 and 2010, whereas the proportion of salaried, low paid workers stayed almost constant. Not bad that given that the introduction of the NMW, lower-earners were earning more than they had previously.

(Tbf, you did say the number of workers as proposed to the proportion; I can’t find specific figures for that, but it there were a greater number of lower wage workers in 2010, that must be because of growth in the number of workers, given that the proportion of low earners either remained unchanged or dropped marginally).

Sorry I should leave a source. It’s the table at #3 - www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/lowandhighpayuk/2019

It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is. What matters is what percentage of jobs pay only minimum wage.

It kind of does matter ?

The proportion of low paying jobs does matter, but claiming that the actual wage paid to those workers doesn’t matter is absurd.

I’m going to watch with interest how the ‘erosion of women’s rights’ brigade reacts when maternity rights are destroyed under Truss and her bunch of expletives.

Weird. No one has said the Tories have been good with this stuff. But labour would make the situation worse. But watch with interest if it rocks your boat. I take it you're not female and you don't have daughter's. Because if you are/ do then that's really weird.

Re. the NMW issue, wages are only really part of the factor when it comes to measuring prosperity.

Under the last Labour government, there was a consistent and considerable drop in poverty rates in the UK. While there was an uptick due to the global financial crisis of 07/08, poverty levels remained lower than they were before Labour came into power.

However, poverty rates have been consistently increasing again, under successive Tory governments. They don’t exactly look like improving soon, either.