What do you count as a 'professional' job?

[Llamapalma]

My DSis and I have been arguing this tonight.

What in your opinion counts as a 'professional' job?

Certain wage? Anyone who works in an office? Anyone who has to dress smart? Certain job titles?

I consider being a nurse to be a "professional" job.

• It requires a formal training course.

• Once you pass your training course, which is usually a degree with a university, you have to pay to register your registration, with the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC), and continue to renew it each year. You are then given a pin number.

• You are required to revalidate with the NMC every 3 years. To do this, you must prove that you have completed at least 35 hours of continued professional development, write 5 reflection and provide 5 pieces of feedback from patients/colleagues.

• The NMC have a code of conduct which you must adhere to.

• You can be held to account by the NMC if you do not act within this code, and lose your pin.

• It's a very varied job, and contrary to what most people seem to think, always involves some autonomy. For example, a ward nurse walks on to a ward at 7pm, there are no doctors around until 8am. They are looking after 14 patients. It's up to the nurse to prioritise their workload, assess patients, escalate to the doctor if appropriate...but I always used to go to the night nurse practioner, who was more helpful than the poor F1 who usually looked knackered and/or terrified.

• You are always a nurse, even when not at work. If you come across a car accident, you have no legal obligation to help, but you do have a professional duty to provide appropriate help, in line with your competence.

...and if you fail to act within your professional duty outside of work, you can end up in front of the NMC trying to justify it:

Paragraph 15 of the Code states:

"Always offer help if an emergency arises in your practice setting or anywhere else

To achieve this, you must:

15.1 only act in an emergency within the limits of your knowledge and competence

15.2 arrange, wherever possible, for emergency care to be accessed and provided promptly

15.3 take account of your own safety, the safety of others and the availability of other options for providing care"

Amazing how many don't include teachers in their list of professions.

Or nurses, or emergency/ blue light services.

I think there are not two but three different things here.

There's "being professional" - what everyone should be doing at work regardly of job.

There is "being A professional" which is a narrower definition than the first and includes (to my mind) pretty much anyone who can be struck off (teachers [but not TAs], solicitors [but I assume not legal assistants]<,accountants [but not unqualified accounts assistants], chartered surveyors, nurses [but not HCAs]).

And then there are "the professions" which is a narrower band still but which I struggle to fully define - I am fairly sure this comes back to "traditional" professions only i.e. doctors but not nurses, and lawyers but not teachers.

It is just a silly, outdated term that smacks of thinking that some jobs are better than others and class obsession...

Plumbers, electricians and hairdressers also need to have qualifications and a professional attitude and many who run their own business will make as much if not more as your average accountant.

You only to look the mental gymnastics that people are using on this thread to suggest nursing is not a profession but being a doctor is.

A job requiring a professional qualification.

I was a mortgage adviser and have the CeMAP qualification and had to be registered with the FCA. I'd say that was a profession but obviously not at the level of doctors, lawyers etc.

I'm now a mortgage underwriter, which although I feel is just as much a "professional" job as adviser, I am no required to have CeMAP and am not FCA registered, so I guess I can't call myself a professional anymore?

Yes, as above, a job requiring a specific professional qualification. Usually resulting in letters after your name, a requirement to register with a professional body and adhere to a written code of professional conduct. Usually also have to complete a set number of hours of continuing professional development. Can be audited to ensure compliance and struck off the register if found to be non compliant.
I am a veterinary nurse and all of the above applies to me.

Anyone can call themselves an accountant, it's not a protected job title. It's the "chartered" tag that has protection and requires exams, insurance, cpd, approved experience etc. An unqualified/unregulated accountant isn't a "professional" if people are using quals/regs as the criteria.

I think there are three layers... 'The professions' as pp already stated, are jobs that you have to be specifically qualified to do and which require registration with a professional body i.e. doctors, lawyers, dentists, teachers (someone said registration wasn't required for teachers any more, but it certainly is in Scotland where I am). Then there are professional jobs, which are probably largely office based but not necessarily - imo this one is harder to define and more based on the traditional white collar/blue collar definition. Then there is being professional, as in acting professionally, which surely everybody in all jobs should be. None of the definitions are about money/salary. Trades can often earn more the professions for example.

an individual who is a qualified member of a professional body, someone who continuously updates their knowledge, is competent, and uses their skills in practice.

Nurses are accountable for their own practice, as are Midwives.
Doctors do not line manage or oversee the nursing profession in any way at all.
Its a completely different area despite what you see on Holby.

@Hudsonriver 🤣🤣🤣🤣 @ Holby.
What on earth does consulting rooms mean? Nursing has moved along @DifficultBloodyWoman from your era

A profession is a job for which certain qualifications are mandatory and usually which is governed by a body which may strike you off for not meeting agreed standards. Medicine, law, accountancy for instance.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a job. That's what most of us have. Sometimes people who have jobs earn more than people who have professions.

My job is often described as a profession. It's not, it's a trade and I'm proud of it. But I understand the confusion because even people who do my job describe it as a profession. They are wrong which is ironic since a major part of our trade is being able to describe things accurately.

It''s a bit like having a career or as it's usually more accurately known, having a series of jobs in the same industry.

I work in the careers sector ( was previously a careers adviser) and We always defined a professional job as a role that required specialist knowledge and high level qualifications (at least a degree) or significant experience.

The national office for statistics categorise jobs using the Standard Occupational Classification (SOC) and they list what they consider a professional job.

I would say a professional job is one which requires a university degree or other higher level qualifications leading to chartered status or membership of a professional body. Eg doctor, dentist, teacher, chartered accountant, solicitor, architect, nurse, chartered engineer.

Obviously, there are lots of other jobs where you need qualifications and training but these are not higher, post A level qualifications, so they are not professions.

Nursing is absolutely a profession...a bit worrying how nurses are viewed nowadays. I'm not a nurse but i'm an Allied health professional. We are members of a professional body, have a registration and have to undergo cpd.

Hence why this was a bring it to MN worthy discussion as I don't think there's actually a proper answer.

There is a proper answer. Look up the Standard Occupational Classification (SOC)- that offers a clear definition of a professional role.

And teachers and nurses definitely count!

I've met plenty of people in a profession who did not always behave in a professional manner. The stand out was a former accountant who was struck off and went to prison for activity which went beyond the description of creative accounting. He still advises people on their tax and very good he is too if you like that kind of thing. But he can't call himself a chartered accountant any more.

There are policing degrees and apprenticeships too these days.

Obviously, there are lots of other jobs where you need qualifications and training but these are not higher, post A level qualifications, so they are not professions.

How do you categorise scientists in roles that require PhDs? Are they deemed 'professionals' if they're in an industry which requires CChem or whatever but not if they're in academic research or a company where being chartered isn't relevant (chartered by whom? in a global company).

Of course nursing is a profession Difficult Bloody Woman
I suspect you don’t know what a nurse actually does (you are not alone)

A job that requires specific qualifications snd registration with a professional body

Absolutely nurses are professionals.

Nursing roles are much more established and the era of “carry on nurse” is long behind us all.

Nurses have a lot more accountability and knowledge these days and they can work much more autonomously with patients now as opposed to the doctors always taking the lead.

Having 'office-based' as a criterion for being a professional is absurd.

Doctors, teachers, dentists, chartered surveyors etc don't have offices and are all professionals as they needs to be qualified and registered with an awarding professional body to practise.