What do you count as a 'professional' job?

[Llamapalma]

My DSis and I have been arguing this tonight.

What in your opinion counts as a 'professional' job?

Certain wage? Anyone who works in an office? Anyone who has to dress smart? Certain job titles?

Really interesting! In mental health (at least in my trust) we don’t have “sisters” or “charge nurses” We have clinical team leaders. Perhaps because we have a far higher proportion of male nurses than other fields. We don’t wear uniforms either. I’m band 6 in a specialist community team currently and we are all classed as care coordinators or community psychiatric nurses.

Rosesandhellebores
what an utter load of nonsense. I interpret your post as ‘I don’t have much respect for nurses therefore they are not a profession’.

Every profession has qualified and unqualified roles by very definition.

I’m a teacher now.

I think of professionals as those being governed by a professional body. The police, doctors, nurses, teachers, SWs etc. Those who aren't TAs, HCAs, any admin band etc are support roles within professional services.

It's an aside but these days I don't find the police professional in any meaningful meaning of the word.

I know there are decent police officers because I've met them. But right now when the Metropolitan Police, my local force, is in special measures my confidence is a bit shaky.

And I'm a middle aged white woman. Heaven knows how I'd feel if I was a young black man in a nice car.

The ONS says you are.

The ONS says you are.

No; the ONS definitions aren't about being 'a member of a profession'. They're about 'professional occupations'. Their description is that they are "those are those "whose main tasks require a high level of knowledge and experience in the natural sciences, engineering, life sciences, social sciences, humanities and related fields. Most of the work involves applying a large amount of theoretical knowledge to practical tasks, conducting research to widen that knowledge, or disseminating that knowledge (for instance, by teaching)."

So university lecturers as well as researchers clearly fall into this category despite not being 'members of a profession' in its much more limited sense.

The ONS description should answer the OPs question; a 'professional job' is defined by function, not renumeration, dress code, location or job title.

Membership can be a total waste of time anyway, for some professions and is meaningless.

Being a chartered engineer adds zero value and isn't required in my field. All the things they claim, all the benefits are complete BS. Might be different in civil as it's often a requirement but not for aero, automotive, defence, nuclear or many other industries.

Many occupations that aren't professions earn more than the professions. Besides, there are many interesting jobs outside of the professions. While people in the professions are certainly needed, we would live in a very bland world without artists, skilled tradesmen, and entrepreneurs. We would also struggle to finance these ventures without the backing of developers and investors.

I agree with this. Like accountants and architects need to be chartered- therefore it’s a profession = professional job

I guess it could also be expert in field, so a plasterer who is top notch and has 20 years experience could also be professional?!

I don’t think it matters I don’t personally rank people’s importance on their job title

Skilled trades (plumbing, joinery etc)
Associated professions like surveying, architecture, structural/civil/production engineer
Teacher
Lawyer
C suite exec/ middle or upper manager in corporate field
Any job where you need a specific degree like nursing or medicine.
Professional actor, sports person or musician (but only if they are at a high level and don't need a day job on top of it)
Psychologist/counsellor
High risk work Iike rope access or oil rig worker
Pilot or sea captain
Hig ranking civil servant/police/army
Restaurant owner/hotel owner

Yep, the traditional use of ‘professional’ in terms of career would be lawyer, accountant, chartered surveyor, doctor, dentist, actuary etc etc. I think the term is used more widely now and extends to most jobs for which more rigorous qualifications are required.

A job that requires qualifications and membership of the relevant professional association.

Nurses arent a profession?
Its a degree level entry.
Many have masters.
They have to pay to be part of a professional register.
They do CPD ( Continuing PROFESSIONAL development).

Not sure why you think that doesnt make them a profession?

This is the official line I think.

I'd say someone who has professional training and is a member of a professional organisation.

Eg Andrew Wakefield. He has a medical degree but has been struck off the GMC so can no longer practise as a Dr in the UK.

He still has the education and training.

To me a profession is a role that required a high level of education (usually a degree or higher, though not always) and/or skill.

Professions require ongoing specialised training and/or qualification, through Continuous professional Development (CPD) and the work the do is trained, specialised work.

Professionals also adhere to ethical standards.

Plumber, electrician?

The big 4: Church, Law, Medicine, Teaching and any job that requires membership of a trade body that has the power to disbar a member for misconduct.

By "disbar" I mean prevent them from working, not just chuck them out of the organisation.

Your dog trainer doesn't NEED those qualifications, training and CoD to do the job though.

A nurse, lawyer, doctor, teacher, engineer, etc NEED those things in order to do the job.

Vocations
Teachers
Nurses
Social workers
Etc

Inwholeheatrefly disagree.

I hate the idea that jobs like these are vocations.

They aren't. They are professional careers and jobs that people do in order to earn money.

By classifying these kind of roles as vocations we devalue their worth and it's often used as an excuse to pay them less, and expect them too work with ever worsening terms and conditions.

We need to scrap the whole idea of paid work being a vocation.

Teaching is a profession. Higher education required, professional qualifications, registered body, ethical standards to maintain, continued CPD, etc.

Nursing is the same.

I don't know about the requirements for being a social worker, etc.

Teaching is a profession. Higher education required, professional qualifications, registered body, ethical standards to maintain, continued CPD, etc.

Nursing is the same.

I don't know about the requirements for being a social worker, etc.

Social workers - the same as with teachers and nurses.

I think it’s a job that has a professional body and requires qualifications but does it matter ?

Ironically, "accountancy" doesn't NEED qualifications and professional body regulation.

Literally anyone can call themselves an accountant and run an accountancy practice.

Its the "chartered" prefix that requires for education, qualifications and regulatory body regulation.

You can call yourself "Badbunny & Co" accountants, but you can't call yourself "Badbunny & Co" Chartered Accountants unless you're a member of a Chartered accountancy professional/regulatory body.

A bit of an anomaly really.

I'm a doctor because I diagnosed myself with a cold.