What do you count as a 'professional' job?

[Llamapalma]

My DSis and I have been arguing this tonight.

What in your opinion counts as a 'professional' job?

Certain wage? Anyone who works in an office? Anyone who has to dress smart? Certain job titles?

When it comes to landlords seeking professionals as tenants it normally just means a 9-5 office worker. You need professional qualifications to be a plumber or a blacksmith or a mechanic but they don’t want them types 😉

Sorry. Posted this and then fell asleep.

You've all covered so much that we did and now we'll still be 'arguing' today.

I said that a profession and being professional were different. So glad to read that here.

As "being professional" has nothing to do with qualifications in my opinion. But could that be applied to a 'typical' job also?

As really in my opinion if you joined a bank branch at 16 and worked your way up, taking courses etc as you went, until you're in a high up role and earning well, and acting very professionally all day - surely you are professional? And your job is professional?

And I count banking a profession?

Ah it's like last night all over again but without the wine!!

This

Anything that requires specific qualifications in order to do that job.

So not just a generic degree, but a law degree, a degree in medicine, teaching qualifications and training etc.

A professional regulator. i.e. if someone behaves in a way that is incompatible with their role, they can be removed from a register and prevented from working in that role again. e.g. doctors (GMC), nurses (NMC), solicitors (SRA), etc. Anyone who is not bound by enforceable professional standards is not a professional, in my opinion.

'Being professional' is something you would hope everyone is doing at work regardless of role.

'A profession' to me is something else. I'm an AHP (allied health profession) - I had to do a specific training degree to gain my title, pay my prof body, prove yearly I'm still worthy of the title and the title could get stripped from me and I couldn't then call myself.

Being related to office is absurd. Have you seen where and how doctors / consultant, physio, SLTs etc have to work in hospitals? Mostly on their feet all day, standing up to write notes with no base to work from!

"Anyone that works in an office" how is that a professional! A professional is a GP, surgeon, judge, teacher, police office etc

Someone who can set their own fee for a skilled requirement

This is what i think it means too.

Being professional as opposed to being an amateur is about being paid.

Being one of the professions is about the professional body and the status it awards, and protects.
And for the most part is part of the class system. Hence dentist is profession, plumbing is a trade.

Then there are professional standards which can be actually determined by a professional body or just bullsshit letting agents spout about cleaning.

When you have a document that needs ti be signed by a professional it can't be sue who works in the office just because they have a qualification!

What’s the oldest profession in the world quoted as being?

As far as I’m aware a profession is a job which you are specifically trained to do and which no one else is allowed to to ( by law) unless they have that qualification.

I suppose if it's a job where you need some kind of qualification, although I am at a level where they will say "X qualification or similar" because I'm at a leading level now as opposed to doing if that makes sense so whilst they like to have people who know what they're doing in this context heading the teams it's very behaviour orientated so they try to keep the job adverts relatively broad for recruitment. I'd still class myself a professional though, in a professional body, but a very specific one!

Shocked that you view your whole career as not a professional industry!

Do you not have have yearly training? Nurses pay each year forgotten the name but for their pin and they have numerous training to renew.
Nurses legally hold a duty of care even outside of working hours to the public too.

Professional to me is your job qualification and being on the list to sign a passport it states professions and gives you a list!

A member of a profession which you need a qualification to do so yes to nurses, allied health professionals as well as lawyers, doctors, teachers.

interestingly though I wouldn’t include tradespeople such as plumbers even though they need to be qualified.

And I wouldn’t say a police officer is a professional. Yes they’ve had on the job training but there’s no qualification which they have to do before being allowed to be a police officer.

Here's the thing with the passport list though.

You can be a director of a company and be a professional and be acting professionally all day.

BUT relative of ours ticks both of those boxes and didn't even get any O-Levels and no other qualifications since.

Hence why this was a bring it to MN worthy discussion as I don't think there's actually a proper answer.

When you have a document that needs ti be signed by a professional

All civil servants can sign these can't they? (From memory for a friend getting citizenship) I don't remember it requiring a certain level so that would cover all levels including administrative assistants?

For me it's a type and level of work, one that requires a level of qualification, either by literal qualifications or by experience that has seen you progress to a more senior role due to your capacity for the work of that industry. It's a job that is more than just doing xyz to follow a procedure, or moving a to b, which doesn't require you to use your own thought and agency. It tends to come with a higher wage than the roles I don't see as professional, so supermarket cashier is not a professional role, neither is lorry driver, or cleaner.

So for the same reason I wouldn’t count a banker as a professional but I would count an accountant. 🤷‍♀️

The problem is our society uses the word too lightly and out of its original context

I think you need to understand what nurses do and in fact you could argue that as teachers do not pay to join a professional body anymore that nurses are in a profession and teachers are not! Teachers only pay to join a union.

I'm not sure about needing a degree. What about police officers who work up from PC to Chief Superintendent (or whatever the proper title is) or Prison Officer working up to Gov? They wouldn't necessarily have a degree but I guess they need internal qualifications to progress.

There is a correct answer, and people have explained it to you. Many times.