What do you count as a 'professional' job?

[Llamapalma]

My DSis and I have been arguing this tonight.

What in your opinion counts as a 'professional' job?

Certain wage? Anyone who works in an office? Anyone who has to dress smart? Certain job titles?

This is also a good way of measuring it IMO.

Nurses are definitely covered - they have to complete mandatory CPD, meet certain standards, and can be struck off for malpractice. TAs definitely aren't.

True professions
Medicine/dental/veterinary
Accountancy
Law
Something that requires post-graduate study and a period of supervised practice defined by time/post qual practice.

Linked to the above:
Architects
Actuaries
Pilots
Chartered Surveyors
Engineers
Opticians/Chiropodists/Physios

More vocational but require quals
Electrical engineers
HR
Quantity surveyors
Certified/technical accountants
Clergy
Etc

Vocations
Teachers
Nurses
Social workers
Etc

The manual trades
Electrician
Plumber
Carpenter

@TheMoops a careers advisor once asked me what career I wanted. I told her I wanted to be a careers advisor and she kicked me out of the room and told me to leave 🤣 I was 15 and 100% wanted to be a careers advisor! Thought that might make you laugh...

Your list suggests that nursing/teaching/social work do not require qualifications?!

Why/how are they different from the list directly above them?

Your list suggests that nursing/teaching/social work do not require qualifications?!

Why/how are they different from the list directly above them?

They're not...except that they tend to be women rather than men but I'm sure that's a coincidence in peoples thinking and historical perceptions...

Definitely some misinformation about nurses flying about. For quite a few years now, a university degree is required to qualify as a nurse. We are also registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council, which is a regulating professional body. In order to stay registered we are required to pay a fee every year, as well as revalidating every 3 years (demonstrating continuing professional development) If our professionalism or practice is brought into question at any time (inside or outside of our employment) we can be brought before a panel and potentially struck off the register. We are nurses whether or not we are employed, as long as we stay registered, and in case of emergencies (even outside of work) we are required to act within the scope of our profession.

Gone are the days when nurses simply reported to a doctor and “cared” for people, it’s a highly skilled and often autonomous role. Nurses are absolutely professionals.

Haha goodness! Tbf not many 15 year olds say they want to be a careers adviser!
There's a great clip online which is from a kids tv programme which has a schools careers adviser just telling children to be a careers adviser!

It's a great profession though. I'd highly recommend it :)

Very true.

I don't think it does at all. Nursing and teaching degrees are three years and require placements.

Lawyers and accountants need a first degree, for lawyers this is followed by solicitors or bar exams and then a period of articles or pupillage. The process is about seven years as for medicine.

The bar to enter those professions (A'Level grades/rounded achievement) far higher than for nursing or teaching.

I agree with this. Moreover some nursing and teaching degrees have lowish entry requirements (Plymouth is an example)

Nursing and teaching are professions. The length of study required to enter a profession is irrelevant as are academic entry requirements.

I teach a postgraduate university course that is professionally accredited and leads to a specific profession. Some students in the course don't have a first degree but have gained a place due to significant industry experience. They are no less a professional than those who come to us with a degree.

I agree with this. Moreover some nursing and teaching degrees have lowish entry requirements (Plymouth is an example)

Doesn't stop it being a profession though 🤷🏼‍♀️

A job you need a specific qualification to do. Not just a generic degree. A job where you can be banned from practice if you cock up.

Lawyer, doctor, teacher, accountant, vet, etc.

Yeah it's a profession but not teachers and nurses aren't professionals.

Professional roles require extremely high education, CPD and little supervision.

A lawyer and a doctor. Yes
Teacher and nurses. No

Yeah it's a profession but not teachers and nurses aren't professionals.

Professional roles require extremely high education, CPD and little supervision.

A lawyer and a doctor. Yes
Teacher and nurses. No

Most teachers have a postgraduate qualification. How is that not a high level of education? Teachers and nurses regularly engage in CPD too.

I need to understand how we define professional jobs as part of my job and we most definitely include teachers and nurses.

A job that requires both a specific qualification and registration with a professional body.

I think this is the reason for the confusion. Nursing has changed. Didn’t used to be a profession, used to be anyone could hire a ‘nurse’ to eg look after granny at home.

Now a ‘real nurse’ has a degree and professional quals = it’s a profession.

To make it more complicated, there are still randoms doing whatever who can call themselves nurses, as it isn’t a protected term. Bit different from eg solicitor: it’s a criminal offence to call yourself a solicitor if you aren’t on the roll of solicitors.

Yes to the previous post! I stand corrected with nursing. I had no idea it required so much registration. Sorry!!

I know Health Care Assistants and Care Workers who call themselves nurses and TAs who call themselves teachers. This is THE issue. They need protected titles to be taken seriously.

Absolutely, it’s a shame.

Even nurses undersell themselves (particularly “old school” nurses that actually have so much skill and knowledge) I work in a specialist psychosis team and I am pretty much completely autonomous in my role - the work we do is complex and evidence based. We’re supported by consultant psychiatrists
, but they rarely see the patients and rely on us to provide all of the background stuff. Yes, I’m in this profession ultimately because I care about people, but also because it’s fascinating, stimulating work that requires me to use my critical thinking skills continuously. I hold a lot of responsibility with my caseload!

It’s not your fault! As a profession it’s totally undersold (see my response to Kumri)

Me too!

Nurse really should be a protected title. Lots of other HCPs now have protected titles.
Either that or we need to change the language and start saying Registered Nurse which is a bit of a mouthful

Something that you need to belong to a professional body to be able to carry out. Medicine, teaching, solicitors etc

I would think of a professional occupation as being one that you need some set qualifications or registration to practice. Lawyer, chartered engineer, surveyor etc.

That's not the same as having a professional attitude or being professional at what you do, which I would think of as anyone with high standards of their particular job. And it has a different meaning in sport obviously.

How do you quantity a 'careers advisor' as a profession?

Imo it's definitely not.

(Trying not to sound like that's a put down. I don't believe a profession is 'better' than a trade for eg)