To think this bloke is an absolute knob

[Allalongthescotchtower]

New central heating system going in. There wasn’t one here before ( we’ve literally just moved in) so the chap who plans the installation turns up and sort of barges in without introducing himself with another chap and they immediately start pacing around the house saying - ‘one here ‘ (radiators ?) ‘run the pipes down here ‘ and so on and so forth . Totally ignoring me and not requesting permission before barging into each room. It’s very obvious I’m decorating and without a word he takes out a pen and draws a big cross in the middle of a freshly painted wall!! I said ‘I’ve just painted that!’ He responds with ‘it’s where the room thermostat is going!’
by now I’m really annoyed . It’s an old property with a cottage feel , think beams and white render on the outside and the rooms are small so it needs thinking about in terms of planning things like this .
he goes outside to the rear patio and seems surprised I’ve followed them, I ask him to clarify what’s going on with the pipes and he says there will be pipes run down the outside of the wall . I say ‘okay so is it your job or mine to paint those to match the render?’
and the cheeky fucker says:
’no we don’t do it, you need to use the proper paint though love , you can’t use indoor paint’.
I’m extremely pissed off. Beyond angry now. I’m 38 , I left home at 18 and moved into a little house, I have renovated and loved homes for 20 years and made them look really nice! I can paint , plaster , tile , repair brickwork and I’ve even refitted doors and architraves all while keeping children alive and studying or working full time! . I had to restrain myself. Surely he could see by my car and my ( okay unfinished but clearly going well) decorating and my possessions that I was a capable and productive adult ?
sadly I don’t get to choose the contractors as I did a mutual exchange into a council property and therefore I’m stuck with this idiot . But it’s just an appalling way to speak to someone and I can’t decide if it’s a mysogynistic thing or because he thinks social housing tenants are all a bit basic or something? For the record it’s outer London and while not poor I can’t afford to ‘buy my own house then’ - before that cohort jump on. I pay the rent from my own pocket and keep the gardens and house looking beautiful.
surely even renters deserve to be treated with some respect like asking to be let in, asking to pass through doorways and not having fresh paint scrawled over and being accused of being daft enough to emulsion copper fucking pipes outdoors?

Or am I being sensitive?

@Allalongthescotchtower God they sound awful. Don't you dare make them tea!!!!
Can I just ask, why are heating pipes going outside?

Sorry OP but I have to laugh. On a very regular basis we get threads saying old people in SH should be "forced" to downsize to make way for families (there was such a thread in the past few days). Here we have a family that did an exchange with an elderly lady downsizing and some posters are acting like you conned her out of the place!! Asking whether she could "consent' if she had dementia. FGS Mners make your minds up!

Anyway, back to the OP. As soon as you mentioned SH you were doomed. Dont you know we're supposed to be grateful for bad attitudes and shoddy work cos hey its 'free' supposedly. I absolutely hate having these workmen in my house. They have zero respect for the tenants or their property.

I will now only have them in (grudgingly) for major structural work. Everything else I either do myself or pay for myself. Appreciate you don't have much choice if you need a full heating system. But I sympathise. Most times now I would rather pay out of my own pocket and get a decent job done with a respectful attitude than put up with these contractors who just do everything on the cheap and treat you like an inconvenience.

Well I opened the door and they didn’t introduce themselves and wait to be invited in just declared the council name and something like ‘gas installation as they stepped in and walked past me through the house. I had not said a word yet or anything. So no they didn’t kick the door in or send me flying , but made no eye contact , didn’t wait for a response or even ask anything at all. Then this continued as if I just wasn’t there. Surely the odd ‘alright to go up the stairs ‘’ alright to pop in here a minute ‘ ? Is reasonable to expect ? It was definitely rude. And the tone was definitely very off when I asked anything about access to the walls. I suppose it’s possible given the task they were expecting a vacant property or something and didn’t expect me there but there’s no need for the attitude from them.

Yes I think sadly you’re right here. I don’t have a choice and I shall have to get my big girl pants on and get through this . And of course it’s a pretty fortunate position to be in to have a cheaper rent and more secure tenancy which is precisely why , like you, I do most improvements myself and pay tradespeople for the ones I can’t, out of respect for a home I’m grateful for . I’ve been a bit luckier with guys who I’ve contacted privately ,Funny how the chaps who are waiting for you to pay them manage to be polite and respectful isn’t it?

He shouldn't have spoken to you in that way, it would've set me off too, also they should've knocked before coming in, you could mention it to your housing association. If you know which days they are coming maybe just keep anything you're worried about in either a hidden place or where you will be at all times.

You sound like you have money to burn with the nice car and able to pay for the ex tenants removal van. I'm stuck with my ex who shouts at me and won't pay towards any bills and i cannot afford private housing as all other houses are about £200 more than what I pay now but I cannot get social housing.

It's your home OP. No one can be in it without your permission. Everyone has to be invited in and must leave immediately if your ask them to do so but the owners do have a right carry out essential work (with 48hrs notice if it's not an emergency) and to say where the various elements are located. Running pipes on the outside of the building is wasting energy - they must be fully insulated to keep your heating bills as low as possible and to stop freezing if you took a winter holiday as internally located frost-stat may not be sufficient. Not sure you can insist on alternative contractors but you can ask and explain why>

Here we have a family that did an exchange with an elderly lady downsizing and some posters are acting like you conned her out of the place!! Asking whether she could "consent' if she had dementia. FGS Mners make your minds up!

No we weren’t. Well I wasn’t. I was amazed that they got it organised.

I used to work on decants, mutual exchanges and other non-list tenancy changes for a social landlord.

Housing associations are not beacons of efficiency and good organisation. They don’t always attract too not h staff. I’ve seen people turn up to sign tenancies that hadn’t been drawn up or have some other fatal flaw. I’ve had to liaise with housing officers at other landlords who couldn’t organise a drinks party.

Often one tenant has to sign away their tenancy to the other in a different week from the reverse procedure, if the homes are some distance apart . So one tenant has two tenancies for a few days and the other has none.

These things are really shambolicly run. ID lost. Data breaches. Gas and electricity checks forgotten.

I was only there 18 months and I never saw a mutual exchange without legal capacity. Not something I’d want to do (as the tenant) myself. The stress would be horrific.

Running pipes on the outside of the building is wasting energy

I was picturing ground source heat pump.

I’m so sorry you’re in that situation , I really am it sounds horrid and the current social housing system isn’t good enough they haven’t been building enough homes for years and they sold way too many off too . I Was fortunate to get my tenancy many years ago and in a low demand area and I’ve just never got to the point of earning enough to buy a home so I have to hold on to my home and so did exchanges when I needed to move area. I don’t have spare cash but I have just enough to cope with life atm.although I’ve not had a proper holiday for 20 years or a haircut in a salon for about 8 years as all my money seems to go on the house and kids - not complaining wouldn’t change it . I wonder if you have had the right advice? The councils themselves are often reluctant to help because they are so oversubscribed , but there are other options into affordable housing or schemes where you can get somewhere private with loans and grants. I’m no expert , I think shelter and CAB can give sound , legal advice and help you . I hope you get sorted. Don’t give up just because they’ve said ‘no’ once.

Asking whether she could "consent' if she had dementia.

Oh I see what the misunderstanding might be. We were talking about legal capacity to consent. You can’t let someone sign legal paperwork if you’re aware they have dementia. The thought of two public housing departments at once trying to grapple with a power of attorney was a bit hair raising. You know what it’s like trying to get one council to do something straightforward. Getting two to synchronise something that requires lawyers, for the benefit of tenants and not themselves, was a feat.

Yes, of course a ground source heat pump might have been the idea but maybe not in an old property. Our cottage is at least 150 years old (in the main areas), not so good insulation and heat pump systems run at low temperatures which are normally suitable for under floor heating. We can only have radiators.

If anyone other than a SH tenant (or possibly a tenant full stop) had this people would be encouraging complaints, refuse to let them back in, bad reviews etc - the OP is paying for the house, she's purchasing the service/time in the house, she's a customer.
The workmen are contracted by the LL who she is paying, if they can't treat the LL's customers with respect then the LL needs to know and do something about it.

Though because she's a tenant, and worse still a SH tenant she's supposed to not just put up with this shit, but be grateful they give her anything in return for the rent she's paying.

I've faced this attitude living in SH, the expectation that you're just sitting around all day, that you don't work, that the fact you might have something nice in the house is only because the taxpayer is paying for it, you couldn't possibly have earned the money yourself by working. And it's even worse when you're a woman. Pisses me off sometimes too.

She had capacity although was slightly vulnerable . We did however have to submit the paperwork 3 times , then the move was declined as they didn’t want me taking this place they threw lots of excuses at me , Forced me to take an OT assessment at my own expense which I later found had not been at all necessary and was another delay tactic , I suspect knew it wasn’t in good order and didn’t want the hassle and the repairs . I quoted the law to them , threatened legal action , got MPs involved and after 18 months finally forced the approval and the very same week that email came in my own LA offered me a new build house based on my points ( you couldn’t make it up) . 6 years on the transfer list , 4 yrs waiting for an exchange and they both hit at the same time. Didn’t want the new build house due to needing a proper garden and a few other needs specific to my children and I really wanted this location and didn’t want to let the old girl down so we went ahead and moved the following week. I had another move in the southwest approved within 9 days of sending the paperwork over so it’s astounding the differences really.

What do you mean she is just a Tenant??? Its her home whilst she is renting it and no one should walk throught the door without introducing themselves and wait to be invited in! As far as where this arrogant dope is concened and where he thinks certain things should go... he should be discussing this with the tenant, show respect in her home and ask if its ok to mark her walls! Personally I would be reporting him... he needs to learn respect and as no right walking throught the door of anyones home without being invited and making remarks to anyone unless it is is in a respectful way. I just would not put up with it and no one needs to put up with this behaviour whether your renting or paying a mortgage!!

The OP said she did a mutual exchange , so no, the council won’t have processed it as a “void” and removed carpets and repaired it etc

Oh give over. I’ve had workmen do exactly that to me. Some of them are incredibly rude and have no idea how to treat people in their own home.

To save costs I think. It’s literally the cheapest way they can legally do things with these places . There was a rewire a few years back and there’s wonky conduit zigzagging across the ceiling and down the walls in some rooms , the tiles in the bathroom have no less than 3 colours patched in and they jut out at angles from the wall. The kitchen looks like it was fitted circa 1940 and and the housing of the pipes look like they were boxed in by someone after a big night out 😂 it keeps on giving in that the old , dead cables are just hanging in the cupboards. I’m resourceful rather than rich so it’ll all get done as and when bargains appear and time allows . Keeps me out of mischief in the evenings I suppose . Social life died when the kids arrived so projects are welcome . im just hoping the chaps that do come are different to Mr Knob and I’ll look after them with a brew but possibly ‘forget’ to offer Mr Knob one if he should reappear .

Woah 😳.

That kind of proves my assertion about slipshod practice then. 😄 I know there are better councils and good individual housing officers, but when it’s a mess or someone gets obstructive, it really spirals.

Nice tenacity you have there! Well done.

Thank you. I can be tenacious and assertive by email but I’m a bit of a wuss in person at times , it also fluctuates dramatically depending on how vexed I get . I always advocate well for my children but I seem to revert to doormat mode when put on the spot in situations like this. I suspect that housing officers are overloaded case wise and end up losing the will . I’m sure they start out with good intentions and become disillusioned by poor management further up. Seems to be the theme with much of the customer facing public sector .

I have experienced this attitude before from different tradesmen etc. coming into my home (which I own). Overbearing mansplaining. One told my dog to be quiet harshly , I told him not to speak to my dog like that! He looked taken aback as though not being used to a woman speaking up for herself.

I now only use the one company for all plumbing & electrical work. The workers are punctual, polite and professional. They are more expensive but I’m willing to accept that.

OP you sound normal, having someone barge around your home is rude, no matter the reason they are there. I agree with you.

I suspect that housing officers are overloaded case wise and end up losing the will . I’m sure they start out with good intentions and become disillusioned by poor management further up. Seems to be the theme with much of the customer facing public sector

Yes I think that’s exactly what it is.

Plus every public sector office somehow becomes a safe harbour for at least one employee who can’t tie their own shoelaces and is just spinning their wheels, accruing pension.

I remember long ago when I was in private rented a tradesman coming round. He clearly despised all renters. He opined that you'd have to be stupid to be a renter. So that can be the attitude.

“Absolute knob “ is a bit harsh

It's clear you know nothing about OP situation so stop throwing your insinuations around.

Old lady doesn't necessarily need to consent, if she's lost her marbles social services will assess her as needing to live somewhere more suitable, whatever that means for her. I'm guessing she's moved closer to her daughter so her daughter can help provide care or keep an eye on her etc. Capacity for consent depends on circumstances too not on diagnosis. Maybe she can't look after herself but has the capacity to understand what "living near your daughter" means and said yes to it.

No it's not. He should have showed ID to OP and been polite. Complain to the HA OP. If he doesn't work directly for them but is a contractor they've no way of knowing what his behaviour is like if people don't report him. You don't have to tolerate shitty behaviour just because you're in social housing