Maths interventions Yr 6 I don't want my dd to do it

[Chocolate2cake]

My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

She's come out of school today upset because she's been told she has to miss lessons one afternoon a week (probably art or PE, lessons she enjoys) to do extra maths for SATs. I'm angry.

I've told her Sats mean nothing, in 5/6years time college, apprenticeships or sixth form won't ask about sats.

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

For all those that will say secondary school groups based on sats our local doesn't, it using CAT tests.

Am I missing something? Primary school should be about enjoying learning I don't care what she gets in her sats. I just want her to be happy.

Nbu...tell school she will not benefit from missing lessons etc

Bu..support school, make her do it.

Tell school no, she needs support, let her enjoy being a child, she can make up her maths at later date

I don’t know why so many people are saying ‘tell the school no’. It’s not an opt in or opt out situation. The only thing you can opt in or out of is collective worship and RE. By all means share your apprehension about the situation but I think people are kidding themselves when they think they can just ring up and dictate what is taught when and how. Interventions are a normal and necessary part of school. Some very presumptuous thinking on here. If you disagree that much with how the school is run you have to take your child out. You can’t just opt out of needed maths.

But it's not a Maths lesson she's opting out of. It's ADDITIONAL extra Maths lessons that are not part of the normal school day and take her out of other lessons. Of course she should be able zo opt out of that.

If I was told my child needed extra maths lessons, I'd be focusing on that, not Art tbh. They won't be saying it for the fun of it.

OP what radiates to me from your posts is your love and concern for your child. You sound like a wonderful mum.

I'm a teacher. If this is a case of an intervention group simply to boost their SATs scores (wouldn't be the first school to do it!) then that's very different from the school identifying genuinely struggling kids, or kids fall

Oops posted accidentally!

I'm a teacher. If this is a case of an intervention group simply to boost their SATs scores (wouldn't be the first school to do it!) then that's very different from the school identifying genuinely struggling kids or kids who are falling behind. I wouldn't be quick to turn down extra support, we all benefit from help sometimes. However I would definitely have a calm chat with the school about your concerns rather than just telling them no (which you are entitled to do).

Wishing you and your daughter well 💐

I wonder what it's going to do to your dd's self esteem if she does badly in her SATs? If she's put in a bottom set when starting senior school? If she fails her Maths GCSE. No the actual SATs as a qualification don't mean anything but they are still a strong indication of your dd's ability in numeracy and if the school doesn't think she has that ability then perhaps you need to take this on board? Is it not better that there's intervention now before she goes to senior school? She'll get swallowed up whole there and if she's already behind will find it difficult to get support to catch up when she's competing with 200 other kids her age rather than 20. Mental health and self esteem are important but part of suceeding in life and feeling good about your life is realising that sometimes you have to just have to get on with it. I don't mean to be harsh but I wonder if you weren't getting yourself so het up about it would she be? Part of being a good advocate for your child especially if they have MH issues is realising how much they feed off your energy and working hard to make your own energy calm and positive.... X

Agree with Cheeseandcrackers86. There is little chance of a small group maths intervention in secondary school. You may look back on this and wish you had taken every opportunity for some more 1:1 support. I also think that part of being a parent is being the voice of reason. You could tell her this is a fantastic way of getting some more help. It could be a real positive. We do lots of interventions in our school and the children taking part usually enjoy the classes as they really grow in confidence and in skills. Why would you buy into this narrative that she is being singled out and it is just for SATS etc etc?

Maths is a cumulative subject, it builds on prior knowledge, a bit like building a house, you need a good basis. If your child is constantly playing catch up because your prioritise fun stuff you are doing her a disservice.

Ending up in a lower set due to lower SATs could be fab. They will quite probably have smaller class numbers and go at a slightly slower pace.

The OPs opening paragraph was My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

If having maths intervention tips her over the edge to not attending school at all or self harm then it will be totally counter productive.

Being in a lower set for maths is fine. In fact being in a class where the work is tailored more to your ability and you don’t find yourself constantly one or two steps behind is going to have a much better impact on self esteem for a lot of pupils.

maths ability is often a lot to do with how people perceive their ability or their enjoyment of the subject. Giving young people the idea they are rubbish at maths can negatively impact both self esteem and engagement with the subject. Making young people feel punished for the fact they aren’t in the point yet to tick the right boxes for the goverment statistics isn’t going to help them long term.

i love maths and always have, but I also know the world is a lot bigger than your sats or gcse maths result. Personally I would love see a shift more towards ensuring that everyone is confident in functional maths as needed in day to day life with the other stuff which isn’t as needed (but that to people like me is fun!) or is more specialist skills coming later. Studying a load of numbers which in your mind don’t have any relevance in the world you live isn’t going to encourage engagement.

Maths at that age is very easy to pick up. Like astonishingly easy. That could be beneficial for her MH in reality. As she will find that she can actually overcome one archenemy. It's a easy battle to win. Let her pick that hankerchief it might help in other areas of her life. Did not read the whole thread. They should be made aware of her state of mind though.

Just one of the many reasons I have quit teaching. The education system in this country is an absolute mess, teachers know it and are leaving in droves. Interventions in primary do not work, it's always the same poor children usually in every intervention for English and maths, missing out on subjects which they might actually excell at and enable them to enjoy learning and boost their confidence. It's all about SATS, don't be led into believing otherwise. I'd speak with the teacher, if I was your child's teacher I'd happily agree to take her out of the intervention, especially if her mental health is suffering at the moment.

Hmm I agree with you that primary school should be enjoyable and there shouldn't be loads of pressure.
However for her to think that extra maths means she is useless is not a normal conclusion. And she had the mental health probs before the extra maths. So I think maybe you're pinning all your worry onto this extra maths.
Actually it's a good thing that they are putting on the extra support for those who need it. Hopefully the classes will be with a nice teacher, in small groups, and be fun. She will get some personal attention there which she may enjoy. Can you reframe it in a positive light? Extra sessions are not a punishment. If she's not actually behind and does the extra classes she will find them easy which will boost her self esteem.

If there's bullying at the school then that's what needs addressing with them, not extra support lessons.

I wouldn't care about SATs either but I would care if her understanding of Maths was not at the level expected to access the KS3 curriculum.

Interventions cost money and, in our school, parents jump at them. The more usual complaint is that their child hasn't been offered one. They have identified that your child would benefit but, if you don't want her to do it, they really won't mind and somebody else will benefit from the place. They will update their records to show that, if she does not reach the expected standard, it is in part because the intervention was refused.

Timetabling for interventions is always tricky. Nobody wants children to miss out on the lessons they enjoy or excel at. But then we also don't want a child who is struggling with maths to be withdrawn from maths. At our school, we change the day each week so that they are not always missing the same lesson, so that is something you could ask about.

We also don't want to embarrass or some children who need extra help. We take them to their interventions discreetly and call them 'cook' names but of course everyone knows. If there's a way to avoid this, I'd be open to suggestions. Mostly, we just positively about everyone needing a bit of help with something sometimes.

I think also that you could help your daughter to understand that we cannot all be good at everything and, when offered help, it is often wise to accept it. She is struggling with her mental health and is seeking counselling, so this not dissimilar. I am sure there are things she is good at and does not need help with. If she is good at art, what would she think if she offered to help someone who couldn't complete an art activity, and they rejected the help and saw it as criticism?

Please do talk to the teacher. I fear that you have jumped to some conclusions, exacerbated by your concern for her MH, but you may be able to reach an accord.

Right, I struggled with maths since primary, in secondary I started private tuition, I failed my exams and to this day I still can't do maths! Some people just can't grasp maths.. I'd prioritise her mental health!

"Some people just can't grasp maths."

I think that's a bit general. Most children don't struggle with 'maths' but with certain elements of it. Just because you struggle to add up doesn't mean you can't tell the time, or read a bar graph.

Don’t grasp maths or haven’t been taught in the way which works for them?

I don’t mean higher level stuff but the vast majority of people will be able to get enough of a grasp to be able to use it for their day to day needs.

But where does this analogy end? I don't want to trivialise self harm/suicide at all but one thing that's extremely important to learn is that you can't use it to hold the world to ransom otherwise you'll just end up in a perpetual cycle of learned behaviour and you'll still be miserable and lacking self esteem. She's a child. She doesn't always get to choose what's best for her because believe it or not a 10 year old doesn't always know and I believe that it's the lack of firm guidance and boundaries that cause them to lack self-esteem and motivation

Cheese Only the OP knows how serious her DDs MH issues are. I was assuming she believes they are real and she is worried.
As I read it this isn't about 'holding the world to ransom' it is about making suitable adjustments while the DD is struggling massively. I have helped my own DD with serious MH issues, keeping in school is important as once out, it is much harder to get back in. Unfortunately my DDs issues coincided with lockdown and schools closing.

I think one of the problems with mental health is that serious risk is confused with serious mental illness. And also risk can only really be mitigated by enabling it. Such is a challenge of MH care provision

Dp daughter is currently having some much-needed intervention with her maths.

Why do so many pupils/people struggle with math? Is it the format, is it the pace?

I don't think you're being unreasonable being against her missing lessons she enjoys if she's struggling with her mh and doesn't want to go to school.
On the other hand, if she needs support with maths, I'd expect the school to provide support - surely this should be done either with extra support in maths lessons, or targeted interventions at other suitable times, without missing PE or art. I'm surprised they are allowed to take them out of PE anyway.

Mental health is extremely important

i would ask to speak with her maths teacher and get a better picture of the situation. If it is purely a test performance issue, then you are probably correct that it is related to anxiety. If she is actually finding this years content a bit more challenging, then she should get tutoring in some fashion.

could you agree to work with her after school instead?

Their parents & society tell them maths is hard.

Pace can be too fast or not taught in a way the pupil 'gets'. Not enough practice for less able pupils to embed new concepts before trying to build on them.

Once you get lost you are stuffed. You need to go back to the point you got lost otherwise you are building on shaky foundations.

When you lose confidence maths becomes really hard as you spend your whole time feeling you don't know what you are doing, which makes you less likely to start a problem and 'give it a go'.

(And KS2 SATs requiring certain specific methods be used rather than 'any method that works for you' is less than helpful I think. (If I'm right in my understanding)).