Maths interventions Yr 6 I don't want my dd to do it

[Chocolate2cake]

My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

She's come out of school today upset because she's been told she has to miss lessons one afternoon a week (probably art or PE, lessons she enjoys) to do extra maths for SATs. I'm angry.

I've told her Sats mean nothing, in 5/6years time college, apprenticeships or sixth form won't ask about sats.

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

For all those that will say secondary school groups based on sats our local doesn't, it using CAT tests.

Am I missing something? Primary school should be about enjoying learning I don't care what she gets in her sats. I just want her to be happy.

Nbu...tell school she will not benefit from missing lessons etc

Bu..support school, make her do it.

It's only one lesson a week, she obviously needs the support and it doesn't matter about the grades, but maths is something she will always need, especially at secondary school where the results do matter. The mental health is a separate issue you need to deal with.

And for context, her year 5 report said she was working within age related expectations. I've just double checked it!

The MH issues were here last academic year.

So in 4 weeks into year 6 she needs intervention groups highlighted from her sitting past sats papers. I believe this is more likely to be related to her not reading questions carefully, being quick enough or anxiety.

Is this an intervention because she's struggling to meet the 'expected' level or because they want her to reach the higher levels? I only ask as you said they were academically focused and want her to reach the top levels. If it's the latter, perhaps you could assuage her anxiety by explaining that she's already doing well and the school are trying to help her fulfil her potential by teaching her how to tackle more challenging stuff.

I used to be a teacher and the word 'intervention' is really unfortunate. It's such an alarming word to describe trying to give children what they need to do as well as they possibly can.

Can you ask the school what lessons she would be missing? If she will be missing lessons she loves then that is not the best thing for her MH.

Sorry to hear she is struggling with her MH and wishing her all the best

I can assure you I do not care at all.about image the interventions may present.
I do not care if my DD is top of the class or bottom of the class. I just want her to be happy and believe in herself.

My old school used the word 'intervention' to describe any activity used to move children on from one level to the next. So, for example, we would arrange 'interventions' for our very brightest children to help them access challenging material. It's a really awful choice of words because no one hears 'intervention' and takes it positively. I don't know how your DD's school sees interventions, but at my school it meant tailored learning.

this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless

Given how important Maths actually is for future choices, would you rather they didn't try to help?
Why must this be framed as your DD being useless anyway? Could it not be 'making sure DD can be as good as anyone else' instead.

Ignore PP saying you need to take responsibility for your child's mental health when there was absolutely nothing in your OP to suggest you weren't already!!!

Please do discuss it with the teacher so that you can get a full picture. There can often be a significant jump between "age-related" based on classwork / internal assessments at Y5 and achieving that in their external assessments in Y6. Find out what happened in the recent assessments and go from there.

Ask about the intervention as well: it may be that it's addressing reading the problem more accurately, developing mental agility in order to speed up calculations, etc. And, of course, find out if it is the full lesson or if it is short stints.

YANBU, obviously. This is why I intend to take my kids out of school from May of year 6 (and tell my child they don’t need to worry about SATs because they won’t be taking them!).

Taking your child's MH seriously and prioritising it over academic performance is not wrong. Ever.

I do think it might be helpful to talk to your child and to the school to find out what will be better for her MH. Doing the subjects she loves and builds her confidence is obviously important. But if the intervention can build her confidence in maths, that might be equally beneficial long and short term. You don't need to go into school accusing them of all sorts. Just go and have a discussion with them about what is best for your daughter, taking her opinion into account too. Intervention could be sold to her better, it isn't a punishment. But it's also not always quality. So find out who is doing the intervention and how.

For what it's worth, I'm a maths specialist. My son didn't do the year 6 maths intervention school offered because 1) he didn't want to stay after school 2) it wasn't led by a maths specialist or even a member of the school staff, who would know my child, so I didn't think it would be good quality and 3) I did work at home with him instead.

No must, it's being framed that way by her DDs mind. The DD has mental health issues, OP can't just tell her a reframed version and she'd accept that, her mind will still be telling her it's interpretation of the facts, which is extra maths confirms her belief that she's not good enough and a failure. Love and praise and reframing doesn't change how she feels about herself. Fixing issues like this is a long process and usually requires professional help, which OP has sought.

I'm sorry you're both going through this OP. Seeing your child struggle with their mental health is horrible. I'd be pushing back too, mental health is so important and the school should be considering her's in relation to any interventions and what's I her best interests. I'd start with having a talk to understand what they're doing and why, then telling them how it's effecting your DD and seeing if they have any alternatives and suggestions for how to support DD through this.

Thank you for your understanding and your kind words.

I agree with you OP! It singles her out and makes her feel like she's not hood enough. Plus, she doesn't get to do lessons she actually enjoys. Literally no one cares about SATs except the school. Kids at private schools don't even prepare gor SATs and the world doesn't end.

good*

Is it possible that the reason she may need Intervention in Maths is because of her mental health issues. Her self esteem may be low, she may be lacking in energy so she may not have the resilience to tackle very tricky questions. Art is also a therapy and is good for mental health.

I think try and have a meeting with the school to talk more about her MH needs. It's a sad fact that parents unfortunately do need to push alot of the time for support. Maybe talk to your DD and ask her what would help her the most to feel better. Try and find out a bit more where this self hatred has come from, and seek support from the GP. This is really concerning for a child so young and needs to be worked through and addressed.

My daughter was the top level in maths last year and she and a few others were pulled at various times to work together, so that she had an opportunity to work with others at her level. All of them were taken out at various times, for this reason.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but in the most gentle way possible, it's a slippery slope with these things at their age. I think working with her with her MH can sit simultaneously alongside the learning if done right. And I reckon it may even help her with her confidence and with lots of praise etc she could start realising that she CAN do these things. Xx

The school are doing it for sats but you need to consider that you are essentially saying no to extra small group tuition in maths which is a core subject that your dd finds difficult. Being better at maths is important for her and not because of sats! It is better for her as she will need decent skills to pass her gcse and to do well generally. It would be very stupid to say no.

You sound like a lovely mum OP. I am sorry that your DD is struggling. I think you have good instincts and you are right to be focusing on your DDs MH over her academic attainment.

Public Health England published a report in 2014 that links poor mental well-being with lower academic attainment. www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-link-between-pupil-health-and-wellbeing-and-attainment

SATS are more for schools than they are for students. 'Good' SATS results show that the school are teaching well, and understand the ways in which their students learn, enabling them to target relevant support for the students that are struggling. Schools are judged by their students performance in SATS.

I'm not sure where you are, but Secondary schools in England do their own testing once students join in year 7, and these tests inform them as to the levels of support students might need.

It sounds like your DD will struggle to engage with the targeted support they are offering - considering she will be removed from a subject she enjoys. It is worth noting that PE and Art are subjects that can enhance positive wellbeing, so it may well be detrimental for her to miss these subjects.

I would suggest that you meet with her class teacher to outline your concerns. You are right to follow your instincts with this.

Hi, I think the school are doing what they think is right, helping your daughter do well in maths but you know her better. Can you sit down with her teacher and maybe the head and explain why this would be unhelpful for DD? Maybe a letter from the GP would back this up. Maths is important but your daughters mental health and self- worth is more important. This is a balance only you can make.

Maybe you could arrange private tutorial or just time with BBC bitesize to help provide additional support in maths or maybe the school could provide you with activities to promote her maths. You are right that sats don't matter but maths can. You know DD best and if you think that the benefits don't outweigh the risks with this then you need to stand up for her.

OP, I'm an experienced secondary school teacher and I agree with you.

I detest the way that SATs from age 11 are used to set target grades at GCSE. How can a great SATs score predict what a kid will get in Music at GCSE where you need to be able to perform & compose? If SATs tested Music at KS2, schools would look very different. But it's Maths & English, which as we all know are not predictors of musical ability. I was fed up of explaining to SLT why Jane and John, despite being targeting 9s at GCSE were only on track for a 6, something that used to happen regularly.

Maybe I mis-read it, but I thought you said that you daughter was meeting age-related expectations at the end of y5. If that is correct, be that parent. Push back and ask why the teaching in year 6 has been so poor that your DD is not now at that level. I have done that in my own school with a DD at the start of y13. Your DD is not failing; she is where she should be. The school is sadly prioritising excellent SATs results over a broad & balanced curriculum. When was their last OFSTED as they are hot on "broad & balanced"?

I would 100% put my dd10 mental health above everything else including bloody maths!

My dd hates it and it impacts her going to school everyday, she is much happier doing art and PE.

Her primary school have been pretty useless dealing with her but I visited her secondary school yesterday and the support there is phenomenal so I know she will be able to get the help she needs.

Why is so much put on maths anyway? Considering my dd loathes it she's hardly likely to want a career that involves it in anyway.

Because if you don't get a grade 4 at GCSE you have to keep retaking it at college.
Because so many employers use a grade 4 as meaning 'functionally numerate' and therefore use it as a prerequisite for jobs.
Because there was talk at least (not sure if it has been enacted) about saying you couldn't get a student loan for uni without a 4 for Maths & Eng Lang.

Quite a lot (definitely not all though) of the Foundation level maths (goes up to grade 5 GCSE) is in fact useful every day maths which can be helpful to be competent at.

Maths is important but the onus should be on schools to help children during the maths lessons changing things as needed rather than expecting them to miss other lessons and risking making pupils completely disengage with it.

I think YABU. Next year and every year after in secondary school you'll be moaning that being in the bottom set for Maths is damaging your DDs self esteem and MH.

What are you doing to help get her tutoring? Maths is important and it can effect what A levels and degrees you can do. Now are the critical years to get those skills developed.