Maths interventions Yr 6 I don't want my dd to do it

[Chocolate2cake]

My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

She's come out of school today upset because she's been told she has to miss lessons one afternoon a week (probably art or PE, lessons she enjoys) to do extra maths for SATs. I'm angry.

I've told her Sats mean nothing, in 5/6years time college, apprenticeships or sixth form won't ask about sats.

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

For all those that will say secondary school groups based on sats our local doesn't, it using CAT tests.

Am I missing something? Primary school should be about enjoying learning I don't care what she gets in her sats. I just want her to be happy.

Nbu...tell school she will not benefit from missing lessons etc

Bu..support school, make her do it.

Can you reframe this to her as an opportunity? She’s likely going to feel pretty bad about herself if she gets a level 3 in the SATS.

@Chocolate2cake secondary maths here. You are right to say secondary won't set the kids on maths. We assess them ourselves as sats are very very very unreliable.

Your daughter will be offered maths intervention if she needs it though. We are so aware of how choices narrow at 16 for those without a grade 4, and we want to support from year 7 because if they start to feel totally lost in maths class, they can completely stop learning.

We don't take them out of p.e very often...as you suggest, it's good for them and can boost the esteem of kids when everyth

everything feels like it's about test scores at secondary!!

And sorry...I meant secondary won't set the kids based on sats. @Oneortwo2022 some kids will get 3's. We need to work on society making these kids feel bad. Some people are less able...have SEN....and I can assure you that by year 7, no kid knows their SATS score. Thank god. High sats scores give maths teachers NO heads up on how they will cope with secondary maths by the way....the thinking skills are different to those that can get you a high sats score.

I think resilience is really important for mental health. She is not able to accept guidance and support and that is a threat to her ability to cope. At the moment she ISN'T where she needs to be in maths and she is being offered support to get there. No one said she isn't smart enough and I think you need to spend some time with her to make sure she understands this. You can't parent by helping her avoid, remove things that make her sad. She needs to learn to cope with those things. My dad always says, parenting is like being an artist. You need to teach your children to deal with all the colours. That is important for their long term mental health. I wouldn't see SATS being the evil here either. She is starting secondary in a few months and she will need those skills covered in SATS secured, or she will end up being further and further behind her peers. How will her mental health cope then?

But why should the child have to see additional maths as an opportunity when it means missing other subjects that she enjoys.

Interventions are important but good practise states that they shouldn't be done at the expensive of other subjects. This is very clear and schools can be criticised if they are doing so.

We should not be telling children, in our actions, that art and PE for example are less worthy subjects.

Sometimes a lot of the time we have to do things we don't want to to get by in life. Maybe part of the reason kids are growing up so lacking in resilience is that this reality isn't being made clear to them

But SATS are only important ti the school!!! Why should the child care about SATS?

The child is 10 or 11.
SATs really aren't that important.
That's the reality.

Resilience is important and so us learning to fight your corner and stand up for what you believe in.
Resilience doesn't have to mean that you have to give up on everything you enjoy.

For all we know this child might be a future artist or sports person. Why are we telling her that those subjects aren't important?

And the bottom line is the school is not demonstrating good practise by having interventions in other subject time. It is not something we should be accepting as only in schools.

But SATS is about more than the score. The knowledge required (maths) is a life skill. And if you are not secure in your foundation KS2 maths then you will struggle more at secondary. Which is also bad for someones mental health.

I am posting with the best of intentions and as a mum of a dc also in Y6 who struggles with anxiety and is behind academically. He is receiving tutoring and interventions to help him catch up (after school, by the school). He and I are very grateful to the school for the support they are offering him. It means he misses his favourite sports. But its ok, we will work around it.

No one has said those subjects aren't important. But why wouldn't you as a parent want help for your daughter who is not meeting expectations?

Again, the scores might be important to only the school (although I doubt this). But its not about the score. It is about the child not meeting expectations and thus not having secure knowledge of her KS2 maths. How is she going to get there? Sure, don't do the intervention nut what is the plan for the OP to help her daughter aquire the skills she needs? Do it at home?

I just don't think "dont bother" is the answer. We can not excel in life by choosing to remove everything that makes us sad/is hard.

OP have you thought about how your daughter will feel if she works really hard and does well in the exams as a result? The pride she will feel having applied herself and overcome something difficult?

What level is she at and what is the expectation of the school? Some are obsessed with getting the best marks possible so is she actually behind or somewhere around the pass mark?
if she’s suicidal you can get an emergency assessment- through 111, a&e, camhs etc. has she had that done? Is she safe to be in school at all?

Is everyone missing the crucial information that the DD is average at maths, not behind or even in the bottom set. The school are doing this extra intervention and probably are targeting those in the middle sets who feel can improve. What about those really struggling? My dyslexic DS was never offered any intervention despite struggling in maths.

So no, she doesn’t get to miss subjects she enjoys which are important for her mental health to move from being average at maths to being above average just to make the school SATs look good.

But why wouldn't you as a parent want help for your daughter who is not meeting expectations?

I'd accept the intervention but not at the expense of the other subjects, especially ones which my child enjoyed and looked forward too.

If they are important interventions they can take place at an alternative time not instead of other subjects. As said, this is good practise anyway and schools should not be doing interventions instead of other subjects read.

Id ask school why they hadn't highlighted any specific issues before this year, as it seems that's the case for the OP, and what has changed this half term. Id also ask for a list of all areas by Dd was falling behind in and then work on them at other times, at home or with a tutor. I wouldn't have an unhappy child due to the school not following guidance.

No one has said those subjects aren't important. But why wouldn't you as a parent want help for your daughter who is not meeting expectations?

The OP had stated that her child hasn't been behind before, and is more likely 'average.'

I suspect the intervention is entirely for the schools benefit - to get those borderline children teaching the higher level, rather than the 'average' level, do that it boosts their [the schools] scores.

I've taught long enough now to know that the latter scenario is very likely in many schools.

Id ask school why they hadn't highlighted any specific issues before this year, as it seems that's the case for the OP, and what has changed this half term. Id also ask for a list of all areas by Dd was falling behind in and then work on them at other times, at home or with a tutor. I wouldn't have an unhappy child due to the school not following guidance.

I'm genuinely curious... do people not consider it at least partially to be their responsibility to be aware of what level their child is working to and whether they're behind? Teachers have at least 30 children to keep track of. Parents have their own....

Many parents won't really know what the expected level is in year 6 maths and English currently. It's very different to when the vast majority of parents went to school. The difference in expectations in just the past few years is big, let alone in the time since lots of parents were in year 6.

And the op has stated that her child has always been 'average' so clearly has an idea. If this has changed then either something has gone wrong in the past few weeks, the school have fudged their reports to parents in previous years OR the school are concerned about increasing their scores at the higher levels.

There is nothing wrong with being average. Someone has to be!

And I know how many children teachers have to be concerned about. I've taught for over 25 years now.

I'll try and answer questions/comments

As I said in previous responses, dd year 5 report stated she was meeting age related expectations, so I am well aware of my responsibilities as a parent to know where my dd is.

I'm not trying to create an environment where dd only partakes in activities she enjoys. If that was the case, I would not continue with the daily battles for reading and homework including times tables games as an extra. I do not care about SATs, I do not care about the school achieving an increase in pupils exceeding expectations, I do care about my dd mental health. I do care about supporting her and if that makes me a parent who is not teaching her resilience then so be it.

GP made an urgent referral to camhs, I received a telephone call 2 days later, because dd hadn't made an attempt and because I was talking openly about er thoughts including suicide, she was not an urgent case. I've arranged private counselling for her. I am trying my best.

Sorry but a few things here:

• SATs haven't been level based (level 3 etc.) for 8 years so your information may be a little out of date,
• secondaries do use SATs as part of their processes as they are held accountable for their progress 8 scores from SATs scores, not from any internal tests,
• good schools will allow for changes in these sets based on how children are doing but they don't always. Many schools prioritise how the school needs a child to do over how they are or could be doing (secondary and primary).
• there are a huge number of similarities between SATs and GCSE. In fact, a study was done with Y6 teachers and Maths teachers where they were given questions at the level of the SATs Maths papers and at the level of GCSE foundation papers. They were unable to reliably identify which papers the questions were coming from. So if SATs aren't an indicator of how to approach Maths at GCSE, why isn't this borne out in evidence?

@Chocolate2cake I sent you some DM's. Don't hesitate to get in touch if you need more ideas!

@Iamnotthe1 my school sets them ourselves from internal tests, half a term in. We are outstanding with a very high PP intake.

And you kinda made my point. Why give 11 year olds questions that are highly similar to gcse? If that was appropriate we would be just teaching using past papers from y7.

I don't give a hoot about sats terminology. I didn't open my own kids' results. They've done very well at uni. I appear to know what I am talking about in my teaching and parenting roles.

Age 11 is too early to break their confidence and judge them so publicly. Sats are a pile of shite.

I should add that our progress 8 scores are very favourable. We do not ever set on SATS. We take the kids as we find them.