Maths interventions Yr 6 I don't want my dd to do it

[Chocolate2cake]

My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

She's come out of school today upset because she's been told she has to miss lessons one afternoon a week (probably art or PE, lessons she enjoys) to do extra maths for SATs. I'm angry.

I've told her Sats mean nothing, in 5/6years time college, apprenticeships or sixth form won't ask about sats.

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

For all those that will say secondary school groups based on sats our local doesn't, it using CAT tests.

Am I missing something? Primary school should be about enjoying learning I don't care what she gets in her sats. I just want her to be happy.

Nbu...tell school she will not benefit from missing lessons etc

Bu..support school, make her do it.

I've always liked the quote from John Stuart Mill. He wrote, “We study mathematics to learn how to think and we study the humanities to learn how to express our thoughts.”
It's a shame the government doesn't focus more on practical functional maths for those that struggle to formulate math problems correctly. Dp's daughter does seem completely lost.

SATs don't matter with regards her because it's testing schools progress rates.

However ..... if she isn't making minimum standard for SATs why wouldn't you and her want extra support? If she's behind now and missing some basics it'll only get harder.

I honestly get it re MH. My own ds suffered badly and went further than ideology to an attempt.

But if she's fragile now being further behind at secondary could make those feelings intensify.

I'd enroll her in clubs outside school to support her enjoyment of art or sport and support her education during school time.

I’m with you OP.

SATS reflect on the school - that’s why they are pushing it. Neither of mine did them because of Covid thank god. The secondary schools do their own testing once you start. SATs really aren’t the be all and end all some on here make out. It’s primarily school FFS and OP’s DD is struggling massively with mental health issues. At this age. Primary schools are so focused on maths/spellings/ constant testing at the detriment of creativity, PE, art etc.

She’s only just started Yr6 and was meeting expectations last year? She sounds fine. They all have a summer slip. I can’t believe some of the responses you have had on here. Poor kids.

If she doesn’t want to to the extra maths and it will affect her mental health then push for her to keep the art/PE whatever subjects she actually enjoys. They’ve been back at school what 3 weeks? And apparently she’s behind? Rubbish. They’re just bothered about their SATS results. Highlights everything that is wrong with our education system.

I’ve known lots of schools to run extra lessons to push kids SATS scores up tomake them look good. Which is great if your child loves extra lessons and constant testing at the expense of the creative subjects and sport (which are great for mental health and where other children excel).

Do we honestly think that after 3 weeks i. Yr6 they can identify those who are really struggling or do we think it’s a SATS policy? Where was the help last year then? Why wasn’t OP’s child singled out for being behind then? Or has she fallen behind in 3 weeks?

Do we honestly think that after 3 weeks i. Yr6 they can identify those who are really struggling or do we think it’s a SATS policy? Where was the help last year then? Why wasn’t OP’s child singled out for being behind then? Or has she fallen behind in 3 weeks?

It's very possible. In Y5, there are no objective or detached methods of assessing where a 'officially' child is. Decisions are made based on how that child is, their normal work and then from tests that don't have specific cut offs for what is 'age-related' and what isn't.

Conversely, Y6 do have an absolute method of measure: previously used, nationally set exam papers that will say, in black and white, whether someone is 'age-related' or not. If the school have done a set of tests as part of their usual assessment, they will know exactly how each child is achieving now and how far away they are from reaching both their potential and the 'age-related' or 'greater depth' barriers.

Y5 assessment is, at best, an educated guess and can be influenced heavily by the person making the guess. Y6 assessment is cold fact. I've seen numerous child start Y6 with grades that are either over or under where they actually are and, yes, been able to tell very early in the year.

That being said, I'll repeat: small, targetted interventions during assembly / early morning times can be highly useful and are positive. Large, general interventions that replace an entire lesson are not positive. OP needs to go back and clarify what is actually happening by speaking to the teacher.

When my daughter started school in year 4, it took her a while to feel comfortable within the classroom setting, she didn’t put her hand up much etc. within 2 weeks she was being referred to ELSA to help her ‘stop being shy’.

We declined, on the basis that she was doing incredibly well just walking into school every day, and we didn’t want the message being given that this wasn’t enough at that stage. And there is nothing wrong with being shy anyway!

She is now in year 8, top sets for everything and no problems contributing. But she would still be described as shy by many, because that’s part of who she is.

I guess my point is that just because the school say something is necessary doesn’t mean it is (am a former teacher btw). And that doesn’t mean you’re not supportive of her education and the school itself, but seeing her as more than just her performance in certain subjects.

I’d ask for a breakdown of what she needs extra of, and bolster that at home, it doesn’t need to be paid tutoring. Let her stay part of the group at school and to do the fun bits as well.

Under a year of an extra lesson a week is not going to make or break her GCSEs 🤨😳🙄, especially if those lessons are taking place when she is in a poor emotional state. most schools do use CATS now as a matter of course.

The school offers support to help her improve a very important subject before she enters secondary school.. If she feels less anxious and more confident in that subject it will boost her self esteem and perhaps if she experiences some positive progress she won't feel "useless".

Acquiring basic skills at the right stage will make a huge difference to her future life after school. Don't deny her that opportunity.

The op hasn’t said she is feeling anxious about that subject though? Intervention when not totally necessary is more likely to make her think there is an issue.

That depends how intervention happens as a school. If it's only for children who are below the 'age-related' expectations then, yes, it can project that. In my school, all children end up having short-term interventions at some point across the year, working on various things that are common to that group of kids, whatever level they are currently attaining.

The proposed intervention is making the DD feel anxious. I remember in primary children were always moving up and down through sets. They all learn at different paces. Most extra help in YR6 will be offered with the aim to improve the schools SATS results:

I got no extra help offered for my dyslexic son.. It only becomes an issue when the school wants a good set of results. They are not thinking of the pupils here.

They are not thinking of the pupils here.

That's not fair at all: why would a teacher be doing the job if they didn't care about the pupils?

Of course I want my kids to reach their potential and, ideally, achieve 'age-related' or 'greater depth'. But it has nothing to do with wanting results for the school. Believe me, we'll be fine either way. But I know that unless they have the right foundations, they will struggle at secondary. I also know that if they underperform then there will be lower expectations set for them and that there will be less of a reason for the secondary school to give them the extra support that they might need.

But if a child is getting to year 6 and then suddenly needing extra maths lessons to me that suggests they have been massively let down with maths teaching in previous years OR they are being primed to get a good rest result. If they are struggling with maths then it should have been identified and worked wihh much sooner

Or that it's the level of content at Y6 that they are struggling with.

Or that the Y5 teacher was overly generous with how he/she chose to assess them.

Or they have the resources to deliver that support at that point in time and didn't in previous year groups or at a previous time.

Or intervention was focused on other child who needed more help but those children no longer need it as the intervention has been successful.

So they have gone from fine to struggling with the content overnight?

sorry all of your justifications for it being suddenly needed in year 6 still suggest being let down to now

They can, yes. It may be that a child was only just managing and then, as the content difficulty steps up, they need more support.

I think using the term "let down" is overly harsh. Schools are not factories producing cars where there is a complicated but ultimately uniformed approach, one that is the same for all and only works in one way. They are complex systems completing the equally complex task of educating a child for almost the entirely of their childhood.

If the Y5 teacher's judgement is on the generous side, they haven't been let down: it's not an absolutely measure in Y5, it's an estimated professional judgement.

If the school hasn't had the resources to deliver intervention in Y5 because there's no member of support staff, they haven't been let down: there just doesn't exist a member of staff to do it.

If other children have been struggling more and so they have been the focus of intervention, they haven't been let down: there were just children who needed it more. If, after an accident, a person's injuries worsened a bit because the doctors were working on someone else whose injuries were more severe, would you say the hospital was letting them down?

My granddaughter, an August baby, struggled at school. She got additional support and it really helped her. She did need to retake GCSE Maths, as it is a key subject for progression. She stuck to it and got her 4. Progressed on to BTEC Level 3 (A level equivalent), got a Distinction/Merit, top of her group, now on a BTEC Level 4 course and again top of her group. Some sail through school, others have to work for it. My gd attended every after-school support and revision class she could, small groups with highly supportive teachers who know the kids are there to work hard & learn. I emphasised to her that private tuition is about £30 ph, so what a lot she was saving us by getting in-school support. Grab any help available for your child.

Or it means that funds are limited so the intervention is targeted at those children about to transition to secondary.

Truly, it is only mn that I hear that teachers only care about SATs because they want to look good. Schools endure regardless. Believe it or not, we want your kids to progress to KS3 with the knowledge they need to access the curriculum. Interventions cost money and are offered to those who need them. It baffles me that some parents refuse them or are suspicious of motives.

I doubt it has happened suddenly. More likely, she was a focus for the teacher last year, scraped the expected standard the year before. Now, they'd like to put some extra tuition in place. Parents are free to say no, and we are free to ignore them, but most schools would back down, think it a shame, and offer it to someone else.

If she was a focus for the teacher last year then why is the OP only just hearing about this now. What did the teacher say at parents evening last year about her maths?

They’ve only just stared YR6 but now she is struggling so much in the first 3 weeks that she needs extra help? Lots of children struggle for the first few weeks after summer to get back up to speed.

And she shouldn’t miss PE to do extra work for SATS. Exercise is hugely important for physical and mental health.

You are so right. She was probably absolutely fine at Maths. They must be offering the intervention because they are trying to upset her or waste money for no reason.

"Lots of children struggle for the first few weeks after summer to get back up to speed."

I wish someone had explained that to schools. If only we'd known!

Do we know for sure that's what she's missing? Mum hasn't spoken to school about this yet.

Interventions do usually happen during the school day though so children have to miss something.

Or not, if parents aren't overly concerned with them not reaching the expected standard to be ready to access the Y7 curriculum of course.

It's advised that children should not be expected to miss other subject lessons, especially more practical ones like pe, music, art, etc. nor should they miss assemblies, especially Ines where certificates, etc are handed out as part of the school's celebrations/reward systems, to do interventions for subjects such as English and maths. Recent advice has been that any intervention for core subjects should take place within the lesson itself or at an arranged time outside of the curriculum.

Mental health comes before school increasing their SATs results.

Speak to school and ask she isn't missing other subject areas.

Or to make their SATS results better…

I’ve seen entire classes made to come in early purely to do work on SATS papers. It’s not about the children it’s about the school looking good.

Missing PE to do maths SATS practice is not good for the child. Especially a child struggling with their mental health.