Maths interventions Yr 6 I don't want my dd to do it

[Chocolate2cake]

My dd, age 10 in Yr 6 at school has been struggling with mh to the extreme I've found suicide notes, notes saying she's useless at everything and notes saying she's fat and ugly. I struggle to get her in school.

She's come out of school today upset because she's been told she has to miss lessons one afternoon a week (probably art or PE, lessons she enjoys) to do extra maths for SATs. I'm angry.

I've told her Sats mean nothing, in 5/6years time college, apprenticeships or sixth form won't ask about sats.

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

For all those that will say secondary school groups based on sats our local doesn't, it using CAT tests.

Am I missing something? Primary school should be about enjoying learning I don't care what she gets in her sats. I just want her to be happy.

Nbu...tell school she will not benefit from missing lessons etc

Bu..support school, make her do it.

Catching up in maths could do her mental
health good. Choose carefully how you frame this to her - it’s a good opportunity. Is she receiving any support for her mental health?

Some harsh replies 😞.

OP, I understand why you feel defensive and protective of your daughter, especially if school have been slow to support your dd's mental health and you are worried sick.

If your dc is so anxious and depressed, SATS does not come before everything else, your dd needs a holistic intervention. Can you urgently access private counselling? Or buy a book on CBT for children and try and work through it. Is your dd possibly neuro diverse? If you feel you can, try and get the school on side and work together with them. Has your dd been diagnosed with anxiety by the GP? A doctor's note might help convince the school to provide different support.

Ultimately, the intervention is a good idea but it's best if your dd doesn't miss the same subject each week. You can also work on some of the things at home with books.

Oe thing to try your best to avoid is not to let your dd avoid situations that are difficult as the avoidance will trigger a viscous circle.

I hope your dd gets the help she needs

A child who does not pass KS2 SAT in maths is statistically unlikely to reach a GCSE pass either, and the current government requirement to retake post 16 can significantly curtail A level/post 16 options and so impact on post 18 options.

You haven't read what I said, which is her basic skills (literacy and numeracy) matter more than the subjects she's missing out on. I'm not talking about mental health needs here, as mental health is not contingent on getting to do PE for 60 minutes instead of 40. From the point of view of the 'broad and balanced' curriculum OP is spouting, numeracy is fundamental, and art, for example, is not. It's not about what a child, or her parent, prefers doing.

It sounds very much like OP's problem is the image the intervention might present, i.e. that the child is not bright, and that this has been reinforced to the child. The mental health issues are not because teachers are teaching knowledge and skills.

The attitude should be that support to improve should be accepted.

How many adults do we see on here who don't have the maths to even understand their energy bills? How do you think that's affecting people's mental health in life?

Hi op.

You can't blame the school for arranging maths for her.

How has this suddenly come about? Her mh issue's!

Is she being dramatic? Serious? Does she like school!
Friends? Access to toxic sm?

How poor is her maths.

Can you move school?
Take her out, give her a break?
Do you work could you be with her at home for a while?
Does she have any Sen?

SAT results are reasonably good predictors of GCSE results. If she's struggling now, it's likely she will achieve a lowish grade at 16.

However, her disinclination to attend the classes is merely a symptom, not the actual problem. You need to deal with her mental health issues as they are very likely to escalate over her teenage years otherwise.

@MooseBreath ..

Id say as a mum with a DD who has "interventions" they were the wrong type of interventions.

Because she has suspected dyslexia.

The extra help was completely wrong for her and useless because they came at the subject eg reading just like the main lessons.

Thankfully during COVID first lock down I realised this and did some research.
I got her from a stuttering, jerky low level to a confident smooth reader about 4 levels higher in a few months.
Due to the fact I was flexible, and came at the problem in a different way.
We ditched phonics.

Extra help will usually work best if there are Sen issues, strategies included. Unfortunately as no teachers, senco or ta really generally substantially know about Sen then of course, interventions don't work.

I'm a senior leader in a secondary school. Parent of two children.

I wouldn't allow this either. Literacy and numeracy are fundamental skills, however your child is 11 and a child who is happy and settled and progressing well in all areas is a priority over extra maths.

Worst comes to worst, you pull child from SATs. So what? School uses other data to base class sets and GCSE predictions.

Do what's right for your daughter now OP. We have lost the balance in the curriculum. I work at a school where children have English and maths five times a week, plus do intervention in tutor time and after school revision and still perform better in other subjects. How is this?!

Your child's mental health, enjoyment of school and learning is far more important.

Are you in a position to home ed until secondary school?
Sounds to me like the school is very detrimental to her mental health. Her MH would be my top priority. Sounds like a break would do her good. She can do the counselling you've arranged, maybe some clubs and hopefully br in a better position before starting secondary school

What did you use instead of phonics?

I intend to tell school tomorrow that they are failing to offer her a broad and balanced curriculum, that they are failing to support her mental health and this intervention consolidates her belief that she's useless.

I voted not unreasonable because you're not unreasonable to call them, explain dd is upset about intervention, worried about what lessons she will miss, and as she has significant existing mh problems, you're concerned about the impact.

But if you phone up and have your suggested rant, when the school are trying to support your daughter to improve, you'd be unreasonable.

Call, talk to someone. Discuss as a reasonable person. Complain and escalate only if necessary. Most staff in school are trying their best to meet the needs of loads of little humans.

Unfortunately those sats seem to come back to bite you on the arse. Most schools do refer to them when setting in conjunction with cat scores. I don’t like this but when kids get put in lower sets later in secondary school that’s when problems can occur.

I would treat the maths and mental health issues separately and accept the extra help.

You sound like a fabulous teacher!

My dd now finally has a fantastic teacher for YR6 and it's made the most amazing difference to her confidence and self belief. I find teachers with your level of understanding really do get the best out of children.

Just to calm any fears. SATs are used to set kids in secondary (if that is how your school works), but on entry kids will be continually assessed both formally and informally. If a teacher thinks your child is in the wrong set they'll be moved. There will be end of unit/ term/ year assessments and results from this could cause a movement. Not just SATs data.

Also, in the case of a student moving from one secondary school to another often SATs data doesn't follow and targets aren't pulled through for them, so we do rely on entry tests or class work for some students.

SATs are super important measures of performance... for a school and ofsted. I'm not convinced they are in the best interests of a child. Definitely a debate for another day!

I get you - but Maths isn't going to stop being a problem once she goes to secondary school; getting a leg up now can only be a good thing.
She really does need to be able to get a GCSE in it in 5 years time, or nearly every door will be closed to her and she'll have to keep on with it until she does pass.

I'm not denying my daughter an education I am simply suggesting that pulling an already vulnerable child out for extra help is highlighting her core beliefs that she is not good enough, this will ultimately impact her education more than me stating how I feel.

Maybe schools need to teach emotional literacy and maths using real life situations so all children can access the curriculum.

And I'll never be ashamed for wanting what's best for my daughter and for wanting to protect her mental health.

Thank you for your comments.

I don't want to get into a debate here because the question of mental health / exams / interventions, etc. is a very valid one and should remain the focus of the thread.

However, please be careful with what you are advising here. Some of what you have said here is misinformation. SATs results are used as the basis for all secondary schools' progress 8 measures: the school themselves have absolutely no control nor influence over that. How well a school progresses a child from those specific SAT starting points is the primary data-based measure of how that school is judged. As such, they can affect a child's journey through secondary quite significantly and cannot be replaced by an internal set of tests or observing classwork.

Similar to the OP, I declined the offer from my DD's school for extra (after school) tuition for SATs. At the time, DD was not good at exams anyway and found them stressful, I didn't want the extra pressure on her that the tuition would have been. She wasn't at risk of failing the SATs and did pass them.

I didn't say her MH is related to her maths, she feels like a failure in all areas of her life. I took responsibility for her MH by leaving her abusive father, I take responsibility for her MH every day by blaming myself for her not seeing how wonderful she is. I can't however take responsibility for peers in her class for teasing her because of her hair colour, I can't take responsibility for the damage a teacher caused by bullying a class (teacher no longer works in education) I also cannot take responsibility for an education system that does not value sports and creative arts instead thanks all children need to fit in the same round hoke even if they're squares!!!

I take responsibility for what I need to.

Thank you for your thoughts.

But, realistically, what can you do? You can't stop a school providing additional support for a core subject within school time( if it was an after school group, that would be entirely different), you can't turn up at the school and pull her away from the intervention group. You can say you would prefer for her not to join in, but if the school ignores your preference, there's not much you can do other than remove her from the school.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to home Ed, I would love to!

Counselling starts in 2 weeks, we've waited 9 weeks to get here but it was a service DD felt comfortable with when we went for the assessment.

I've spoken to staff at our local secondary school and have been so impressed with their pastoral support and professionals they can utilise that I'm hopeful year 7 will be a turning point for her.

Thank you for your support.

YANBU. Primary schools put unwarranted pressure on 10yos. It's really not on.

My ds is academically strong. Yet the pressure that he was put under in yr 6, related to SATs, had my calm, cheerful, easy going son, yelling in anger at his swimming teacher. DS loves swimming.

If your dd is already struggling, in your situation, I would want to tell them to back right off.

That's exactly how she's feeling; being punished for not being good enough.

I will work with the school and her to find out which areas need more work and will use art to support her in those. Thank you.

A decent Maths GCSE is a prerequisite for many courses and careers . If she is struggling in yr6 then this won’t just disappear in secondary . This struggle is likely to impact her mental health later . Worrying about the SATs Is a bit of a red herring . If you don’t want intervention at school can you get her a tutor or help her yourself ?

I hope your DS is happier at secondary school.

I really believe the pressure put on children in primary schools is wrong it is taking away the thirst for learning, dampening creativity and not beneficial for MH.