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AIBU?

And now Italy

138 replies

Pampapuddlepoose · 26/09/2022 15:43

Italy has just voted in it's most right wing prime minister since Muesli.

IANBU - This whole thing is starting to look scarily like the build up to WW2
AIBU - Stop worrying and go and do something useful.

I'm going to stop reading/watching the news. It's scaring me and I can't fk anything about if anyway. I'm not trying to scaremongering, I'd just like some other opinions.

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Am I being unreasonable?

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inheritanceshiteagain · 27/09/2022 09:38

She's not far right, she quite moderate. The fears about Mussolini were propaganda used by the left wing parties she was fighting the election against.

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TheNoonBell · 27/09/2022 09:48

Brothers of Italy was one of the few parties that opposed the vax passes and mandates.

The citizens are rewarding those who stood up for them.

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BloodyHellKen · 27/09/2022 10:16

TheNoonBell · 27/09/2022 09:48

Brothers of Italy was one of the few parties that opposed the vax passes and mandates.

The citizens are rewarding those who stood up for them.

That's good point @TheNoonBell

I really think that most people do not like being told what to do by their government in such an obvious divisive way.

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Crunchingleaf · 27/09/2022 10:44

I am Irish and honestly I do find it amusing to see a thread about Italy’s move to the right when you guys seem to be constantly voting Tory and even when you did vote Labour they weren’t exactly acting in the best interests of the middle and working classes. However l, I do appreciate that the alternatives to the Tories can lack credibility at times.
When we have an election yet we will be swinging further to the left with a massive Sun Fein vote. Politics is in turmoil in large parts of the world where the electorates choices are very poor.

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HRTQueen · 27/09/2022 11:08

Giorgia Meloni opposes multiculturalism though in favour of European immigration ie. white immigration, she opposes abortion, same sex marriage, same sex parenting and dismisses that homophobia is an issue along with her admiration for fascists leaders

she absolutely is not moderate she might by on the EU bur Italy is in a very precarious state financially

Giorgia Meloni toned down for the election much like Marine Le Pen

these parties that are gaining across Europe (Sweden are likely to into a coalition with a far right party Sweden 😮) are not like the Conservatives even though they have moved to the right. The heart of their polices is anti immigration . Hungry, Poland France they are influencing politics (Macron has some pretty right wing ideas last year of course directed at Muslims), they even have seats in Germany which was absolutely unthinkable 10 years ago the trend is all over Europe

the Tories have moved to the right UKIP obviously impacted out politics but our electric system has thankfully kept them out of Parliament

politics is a cycle and I hope come next election we move to the left (it will be centre left) but the damage is done and sadly will be for many European countries to

But this shouldn’t be played down

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BerriesOnTop · 27/09/2022 11:17

Giorgia Meloni opposes multiculturalism though in favour of European immigration

Multiculturalism is not an unalloyed good; I think it’s ok if people don’t want it—or want some choice in who they allow in their country.

Nothing wrong with homogeneous societies; I say that as an immigrant from a multicultural society—isn’t all that it’s advertised to be.

I especially don’t know why the Nordic countries ever supported it, why would you look at someplace like USA or Brazil and think, yeah, I want that!

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maranella · 27/09/2022 11:31

Alexandra2001 · 27/09/2022 08:54

@maranella Corbyn was never in power and certainly wasn't in the Italian Govt pre Meloni.

No, but anyone who reads the news and looks at what is happening elsewhere can clearly see what happens when hard left policies are enacted:

  • Open borders/mass illegal migration = millions crossing, inc. murderers, rapists, gang members, drug smugglers and people who hate the West --> huge social problems, terrorism, attacks on women (see Sweden, Germany, France, Italy, UK, USA);
  • Men allowed to declare themselves as women and access women's toilets and changing rooms without question --> men walking around with their genitals on show in front of women/girls, rapes in women's prisons, 'women only' shortlists containing men, men being appointed to women's roles, women threatened with rape and/or death if they object (see UK, USA)
  • Cutting of policing, not prosecuting for minor offences --> massive uptick in offending (see USA)


And that's just a few random examples.
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HRTQueen · 27/09/2022 11:50

Problems in the US and Brazil are from the countries being multicultural? No other reasons ?

I too am from an immigrant family, I can see how FOM and mass immigration can negatively impact usually the poorest in our society and do believe it needs to be managed better

but I would never say that multiculturalism doesn’t work it can work and does being anti is not the same as restricting immigration

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 12:29

Sweden are likely to into a coalition with a far right party Sweden

No we're not. The furthest right party here in Sweden are Moderaterna who are basically tories of a less rabid breed than those found in the UK. The UK media keeps labelling Sverigemoderaterna as the far right but that isn't correct. They're a centre right authoritarian party.

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Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 12:41

The UK media keeps labelling Sverigemoderaterna as the far right but that isn't correct. They're a centre right authoritarian party

They have stated they want ZERO immigration.
Authoritarian doesn't sound too fetching either.

But I agree, it is not 'far right' as it has come to be known. It is moderately to the right as a benchmark and absolutely gunning for people traffickers and crime etc.

For Sweden it is quite powerful stuff though, given the consensus for the last twenty years or so. This is a sea change and has gained in popularity.

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Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 12:48

I am amazed it has taken this long quite frankly.

Europe has been inundated with people traffickers and economic migrants (as well as the very genuine cases of course) for years and years, in a limitless flow pretty much.
It has dealt with pandemics, and now a war. The EU have encroached on almost every aspect of life - despite saying that is not the intention - harmonising for some people has equated to a loss of identity and roots. The globalisation of the world has further eroded away at culture, traditions etc. People feel they lack a voice, representation, an ability to change anything.

This is not so much about racism or anti foreign sentiment, I don't believe it is that - it is a deep, deep wish to return to one's roots, to reconnect with their own cultures, to preserve what makes them unique, and to secure their homes and futures for their children. I am fascinated by it.

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MarshaBradyo · 27/09/2022 12:51

The U.K. wants immigration. I can’t imagine zero tbh so no one’s getting in.

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Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 12:57

No, no one has ever pushed for zero immigration before here in the UK

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 13:08

MarshaBradyo · 27/09/2022 12:51

The U.K. wants immigration. I can’t imagine zero tbh so no one’s getting in.

I'm not sure Sverigedemokraterna really do want zero immigration. I agree that they absolutely want zero brown skinned asylum seekers coming in, because they're racist fuckwits. But they have no coherent policy on other forms of immigration. It's like all other forms of immigration are drowned out by their hatred of dark skinned people.

At one of the local hustings the other week the representatives of Sverigedemokraterna were asked directly by a British doctor about what their policy was in regards to immigrants like her. The answer was a tirade on how if you were fleeing domestic violence you'd go to your immediate neighbours not another house 10 doors down. The others were nodding along. Absolutely bloody clueless.

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 13:13

I think the Brit may have been a Mumsnetter as she muttered 'jävla idioter' (fucking idiots) and walked out.

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Kissingfrogs25 · 27/09/2022 13:52

They are not making any secret of the fact they are aiming for ZERO asylum seekers.

"While Sweden’s immigration policies have long been liberal, SD’s platform would aim for zero asylum seekers"

You are making the same mistake that some of the public made here during the referendum fladdermus you are just branding them as racists without listening.
It is so lazy and mostly untrue. The issue is almost never do with race, and everything to do with security and how the immigrants will be funded, integrated.

It is fair to want security, given the number of shootings and the gangs etc you know as well as I do how rare this used to be even ten/fifteen years ago. It is fair to say we only have so much space, resource and goodwill - we can't accept the whole world in this one country. It is fair to ask how it will affect the communities, given most countries do not have bottomless funds.

If the government do not have adequate control over the borders, that does impact the lives of the people living there. Which is why in the US many countries are now busing Mexicans up to Washington, NY and spreading the load. Now they are not so ignorant of the reality - the cold hard reality of finding a steady stream of houses, school places, doctors etc etc.

We can't help everyone. That is the reality.

Some parties are quicker to get their heads out of the sand and start responding to the real life on the ground concerns and worries their voters have.

This is just the start, I genuinely think this is going to be replicated everywhere. This issue has been festering for years.

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 14:08

I'm branding them racists because every single one I've met is a racist. I have to endure them peddling their racism at every hustings, every market day, and at every fair we go to. They love my white immigrant professor husband, whole other kettle of fish for my Nigerian friend.

Remember this gem they put out:

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BerriesOnTop · 27/09/2022 14:13

At one of the local hustings the other week the representatives of Sverigedemokraterna were asked directly by a British doctor about what their policy was in regards to immigrants like her. The answer was a tirade on how if you were fleeing domestic violence you'd go to your immediate neighbours not another house 10 doors down. The others were nodding along. Absolutely bloody clueless

Most refugees do, in fact, go to neighbouring countries (see Syrians in Turkey) so it makes sense to me. Most cannot afford to go so far afield and also they usually do want to go home when things settle down.

I don’t know the Swedish situation but from media images it looks like far too many young men from Muslim countries have arrived—of course they will not have the same ideas towards women’s rights, whoever thought they would? Now THAT is being clueless.

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 14:13

Bloody youtube links not working anymore. Google sverigedemokraterna reklam if you want to see it. It was an official SD election campaign video which shows an elderly Swedish lady going to get her pension and being outrun by dozens of pram pushing burka clad women. It's as racist as fuck and makes Farage's 'breaking point' poster look tame.

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mustbetheseasonofthewitch · 27/09/2022 14:22

She's really not that right wing.

Hahahahahahaha. She's far right. Uses a fascist symbol. Is considered the most far-right Italian prime minister since Mussolini (or Muesli to his friends).

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Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 14:26

BerriesOnTop · 27/09/2022 14:13

At one of the local hustings the other week the representatives of Sverigedemokraterna were asked directly by a British doctor about what their policy was in regards to immigrants like her. The answer was a tirade on how if you were fleeing domestic violence you'd go to your immediate neighbours not another house 10 doors down. The others were nodding along. Absolutely bloody clueless

Most refugees do, in fact, go to neighbouring countries (see Syrians in Turkey) so it makes sense to me. Most cannot afford to go so far afield and also they usually do want to go home when things settle down.

I don’t know the Swedish situation but from media images it looks like far too many young men from Muslim countries have arrived—of course they will not have the same ideas towards women’s rights, whoever thought they would? Now THAT is being clueless.

The question wasn't about refugees though. It was about much needed, highly skilled immigration. But they had no answer for that. What is their policy on recruiting doctors from the UK? I haven't got the foggiest.

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TimeForANameChangeAgain · 27/09/2022 14:30

Yes I find it worrying. In Italy, Sweden and other countries. Maybe it will not lead to ww3 but it is an indication that people are becoming more intolerant and narrow minded. The more countries vote in right wing politicians the more it will get normalised and the more it will happen. And the world will just become a more unpleasant place to live (especially for those like me who represent some sort of minority).

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TheScorpionandtheFrog · 27/09/2022 14:33

No, but anyone who reads the news and looks at what is happening elsewhere can clearly see what happens when hard left policies are enacted:

The second 2 'hard left' things you listed are happening now under a Tory govt.

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peachescariad · 27/09/2022 14:36

Nothing 'far right' about putting Italy first and family values. That's common sense. Well done Italy.

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Crunchingleaf · 27/09/2022 15:15

Fladdermus · 27/09/2022 14:13

Bloody youtube links not working anymore. Google sverigedemokraterna reklam if you want to see it. It was an official SD election campaign video which shows an elderly Swedish lady going to get her pension and being outrun by dozens of pram pushing burka clad women. It's as racist as fuck and makes Farage's 'breaking point' poster look tame.

What has changed in peoples life’s to cause this shift in voting. How did it happen in a country like Sweden that they were more then welcoming to all sorts of immigration. Why have people started to listen to the voices coming from far right parties instead of dismissing them like they would have always done? Has there been any changes in society that is affecting people who used to vote left or centre?
Dismissing people as racist isn’t going to help. It will only entrench people in their views.

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