To ask you to think twice about eating chicken regularly

[Tigofigo]

...it's just not sustainable for us to consume as much as we do.

Intensive chicken farming is polluting and destroying our rivers and also potentially causing breathing difficulties and lung issues in those who live near farms spraying chicken / other animal manure as fertilizer.

Really worrying too, at a time when govt are ripping up EU regs on environmental laws that will further destroy our rivers and the animals, plants and people that rely on them (along with the shit already pumped into them...).

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/25/chicken-farm-giant-linked-to-river-wye-decline-was-sued-over-water-blight-in-us

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/14/muck-spreading-could-be-banned-to-reduce-air-pollution

inews.co.uk/news/brexit-bonfire-environment-regulations-otters-dolphins-birds-conservationists-1875799

The 4 chickens I had before the ones we ate were called kiev, nugget and dinner 😂

Well I dont think they taste nice. I dont eat pork.

@bellac11 Yes I use tinned ones for the longer soak or cook varieties but green lentils and red lentils don't take long so i often use those dry. I think whatever gets you using them! As yiu say the Green or brown ones are very good with mince. Very savoury and meaty! I use the half half mix for lasagna as well 😂. And only eagle eyes will spot them!

Because a human is not intrinsically more valuable to the planet than an animal, except in the minds of many humans. You may consider yourself special but you are not. I do not believe that just because I am human I should have the right to abuse or support the abuse of other animals for my pleasure

That’s not what I said. Nature doesn’t give a fuck about humans, but other humans should give a fuck about humans first. Not about the ‘balance of nature’ when we’ve had many, many mass extinction events in the past. Nature doesn’t give a fuck about you, but you give a fuck about nature. That’s absurd to me.

Out of interest why do you think a dog is more valuable to humans than a cockroach?

Cockroaches aren’t the only animals that pollinate plants and decompose dead matter. They largely depend on detritus from human settlement these days anyway, and are nothing more than a nuisance.

Up until the industrial revolution human population was relatively stable with a population growth rate around 0.02%. That jumped to 0.3% on the back of the revolution and continued to rise to a peak of 2% in the 1970s (we're now around 1.1%)

We were relatively stable because we lived miserably and children dying before the age of five was common. Now we live much safer, more comfortable lives and don’t experience widespread child mortality.

That explosion in population has meant we have had to massively increase our exploitation of the Earth and there is no plausible way you can consider this to be "best" the relationship between humans and the Earth has ever been

Humans exploit the earth because it’s a harsh and hostile place, difficult to live with ‘in harmony’ and ‘in balance’ with. Bullshit. It will kill you, very quickly.

No, because most other living things live in balance with the Earth and aren't actively exploiting the planet to the detriment of everything else that lives here

There is no balance on the earth. Species live as best they can under harsh conditions unless they are a domesticated animal.

The increase in extreme weather events we are seeing including drought, flooding, storms, fires, intense rain, temperature extremes, etc are all happening with a 1.1 degree rise in GMST and were currently on course for a 2.9 degree rise by 2050

Yeah, we will definitely need to burn more fossil fuels to protect ourselves from the climate change. Not even kidding. This isn’t going to go the way you think.

You think brexit or covid has caused issues with supply chains? Wait until billions if people are displaced and billions of acres of food producing land suffer crop failures

And who told you this would happen? I read the IPCC report and lots of mays and mights in it because they are depending on climate models.

what we do know is that Increased CO2 is good news for plant life and even mitigates drought conditions (ie plants will be more drought tolerant with higher CO2 inputs).

but people love a doomsday story. Same with religion, same with the climate cult. Oh, will we be punished for our sins against god the planet? 😂

only one is a veggie stew (or vegan version of a meat stew) . The other is a rice dish which I love (bibimbap) and the other is noodles .

on my other post I put recipes for nap buns, for tempura, for sushi.

I eat a big variety of meals and yes some bean and lentil stews but I’ve always eaten them because I love them.

There are also beautiful pies if you like that.

and loads of other recipes. If you Google the type of food you like, you can see the vegan versions.

i had the bosh vegan wellington last Christmas and it was very tasty.

but if you tend to eat meat and 2 veg then yeah, it’ll have to be with meat substitutes which can’t be that nice.

though I make a beautiful satay with fake chicken.

you can make pakoras, flatbreads, buns etc out of flour or chickpea flour or other stuff. Once you start cooking vegan food you become very adventurous in my experience. You also do a lot more stuff from scratch and homemade stuff tends to taste better than the ready made stuff in supermarkets.

I eat chicken about two or three times a week, along with fish.
It is cheap (am on UC so that is vital) and versatile.
One of my little pleasures is a plate of chicken wings whilst watching a film. No veggie or vegan substitute for that.

Sorry, but I wont be giving it up. I want to enjoy my food, and as easy as it might be to just eat lentils and rice all the time (bit difficult when you eat low carb), I simply wont enjoy it.
If I want to just eat to fuel my body, I may well get a subscription to Huel.

We've eight million plus sheep in Wales if you think they can be almost exclusively grass fed year round when our grass doesn't grow year round you're a bit naive. We're on the pellets through the winter Lamb is also much more expensive than chicken.

No I dont eat meat and 2 veg, never eaten that sort of meal unless its a roast which we rarely have so although Ive had meat substitutes in the past I dont tend to buy those. I used to really like a 'veggie burger' in Sainsburys which was lentil and spinach and theyve changed the recipe some years ago and they're now awful, I cant believe they did that.

They are virtually veggie stews, just with rice and noodles on the other versions. Which is ok, its what Ive cooked over many years, they're just not that inspiring now. I tend to mix things together in curries or stews but just becoming bored so wondered what others were doing. I think its my own fault for batch cooking so much up in one go!!

I wouldnt be making up things with any sort of flour I dont have the time or inclination to do any of that and I dont eat pies

I didnt like the sound of your veggie tempura as I dont like broth type textures. I also need protein to feel satisfied but get fed up of the same old thing.

Ok, give me a list of what you regularly like to eat. Because I have given you a big variety of meal ideas.

We'd just go back to earlier times where the phrases

'Squealing like a stuck pig', 'Stop gawping at me like a stunned mullet' and 'Running around like a chicken with its head chopped off' originated.

Having to despatch animals at home never stopped the majority of humanity from eating meat before or currently - even when religious slaughter was developed millennia ago with an aim of reducing trauma to the animals but not preventing the eating of meat altogether - there's absolutely no reason why having to slaughter your own would stop people now.

Veggie tempura isn’t broth. It is stuff dipped in a batter and deep fried. That’s dipped in a sauce made of soy, sugar and either fish stock or seaweed stock.

How did you kill them out of interest? You didn't get attached?

Yes I know!

I dont like brothy type dips or broth. I wouldnt eat things like veggies in batter. It wouldnt satisfy. Ive had it before as starters when out and about.

Prawn tempura though, now you're talking!!!

but people love a doomsday story. Same with religion, same with the climate cult. Oh, will we be punished for our sins against god the planet?

I think this is a really interesting insight into human psychology.

It says a lot about how people assume and need there to be someone or something in charge. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but you even writing this is a sign of the underlying thinking.

We won't be "in trouble" if unending materialism and mass production consume the planet, if increasingly poor animal conditions result in antibiotic resistant bacteria, if climate changes causes flood and drought and spread of tropical diseases, and pollutions ebbs away at previously safe resources.

But we will have to live with the consequences of that. There is no one "in charge" to save us from ourselves.

We kept hens ducks geese and guinea fowl. Around 100. Only killed one a mean rooster. I'm happy to pluck and draw any game that comes our way ditto fish

It's also pretty grim for the chickens.

I had 4 chickens as 'pets' they had names paige, pru, pheobe and piper, once they stopped laying we ate them, we actually had one for christmas dinner one year

How is this comparable though or a counterpoint to what the OP is saying? I'm sure you coped just fine killing those friendly intelligent chickens because you'd given them a good life.

The point is like most animals chicken are social, emotionally intelligent creatures and subjecting them to the conditions of factory farming for the duration of their lives is WRONG.

You may not have felt guilty for eating Paige, Pru, Phoebe and Piper, but I bet you would have had they spent their whole lives with you in tiny wire cages barely big enough to move round in, then taken to an animal murder factory before being delivered to your plate.

And if the answer is no you wouldn't have, then your opinion on chickens holds no water because you'd demonstrate a fundamental lack of empathy which would render your opinion on whether an animal should be treated empathetically, pointless.

Perhaps instead of asking people to eat less meat you could focus your efforts where it counts and try to improve farmed animal welfare?
At least doing that doesn't put the onus on families with little income trying to feed their children.
If you have £18 to buy one chicken you are in a better position than many right now, if you're currently paying a few quid for a kilogram bag of chicken nuggets from Iceland I very much doubt an £18 chicken is on your radar (plus the transport costs to get to the farm shop which isn't exactly going to be in your local town centre).
I will be carrying on feeding my family exactly as I do at present regardless of how OP feels about it.

My god, but I’m so sick of being lectured and preached at.

life is hard. We’ve given up red meat and it’s a faff as it is.

Well there is a huge western slant to some of these arguments as well because around the world, people do see, hear and get involved in dispatching of animals. Either because its their own animals or because its there in the street. The poorest countries eat the least meat but this is not about animal welfare considerations, its shown that the more rich or industrialised the country becomes the more meat they consume.

Meat consumption is rising in a lot of countries and has been for a while.

You can ask me but it won't be happening. We raise our own to eat.

Disnefying an animal isn't helpful or sensible.

Sadly that isn’t normal

chicken sandwiches, packs of chicken bits, chicken shops, salads etc won’t be free range

also during the frequent flu outbreaks free range is brought inside

Treating animals as sentient creatures capable of thought feeling and pain is ENTIRELY relevant to animal welfare discussions and I'm sick of people babying themselves by pretending otherwise.

An easy option is make the change at lunchtime

eat plant proteins instead eg chickpeas, butter beans, lentils etc at lunch and ditch chicken sandwiches etc

so if giving up chicken isn’t for you maybe just once of twice a week for Sunday pr whatever instead. Would make a massive difference to welfare and standards