To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

[Tsort]

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

It's not fair at all and did you discuss this all before marriage?

@mamabear715 It's got everything to do with it.

And I honestly couldn't give a flying f**k what class you are.

Nope. I bet you they say and even think they do but really they don't. My husband has no awareness of what keeping the house takes, he thinks I do less than I do but I don't mind because he appreciates me and I benefit from all the money he earns so all good.

@Topgub
Yes, that's right! There was community spirit & helped everyone else during the strikes & 3 day week. Just as they would now, I guess. Ooh, there are some bitter people on this thread! Lighten UP! (Go on, flame me for that too!)

@Topgub

I don’t think it’s important that women and men both make up 50% of earnings across society no, especially not if achieving that means you have to force women back to work when they want to stay home more (either totally or work part time). They should get payed the same for the same specific job that is all.

Some women are absolutely forced to work by upper lower income families now needing two incomes to stay afloat. Now I’m sure a large portion of them want to work, but equally a large portion would probably prefer a more traditional or part time job and to spend more time with their growing children. But that’s not an option for all and it used to be for that particular (lower middle class) section of society.

It benefits me and all the other women who don't want to work full-time and do want to spend as much time at home and with their children as possible.

It benefits all the other women because it's part of having the choice that feminism brings.

I support choice. If you enjoy working instead of homemaking, or enjoy doing both and it doesn't make you tired and stressed that choice is there.

Neither should be forced. Either situation is available to you and you just need to ensure you agree which one you want with your future partner.

@EgonsShell Of course you don't. OBSESSIVE folk on here, am leaving now, byeee, I was there, you were not, enjoy all your bitternesses, nice cappucino coming up for me.. ;-)

The pornification of everything wasn’t even on my mind when I wrote the OP, but God, yes.

@bob78

And I wasn’t trying to do an exact comparison dismissing one as worse and one as better. I was explaining what I found better about then and what was better now. The naivety comes in when one tries to say that their (current) time is the best, tops of progress and the other time was worse.

Statistics say womens happiness has dropped since the 60’s. legislation has nothing to do with how people feel, it’s pushed for by a minority of people and made by even fewer. Then it becomes accepted.

however if your too young to have lived it and just going off the stereotype off “housewife’s we’re all drugged up bozos who really wanted to run companies etc” then you have swallowed a lie and really have no idea what your talking about

I was 18 in 1972. I really do have an idea what I'm talking about.

Its fine to want what you want, but I’m a real person who was happy then as were many many other women. It’s the minority who pushed change, don’t forget that.

And thank goodness they did push change. Incidentally, what does being a real person mean?

Could be, and vice versa. You're sure it's not? Or you're in the exact same position as me on knowledge? You have time to make note of the accounts and compare? as well as your full-time job and all the housework?

When we think about the “traditional” roles we tend to bring up the bad points - marital rape not being a crime, attitudes to do and abuse rightly so But what was the norm then? There was less materialism, house prices did not require two incomes and less expectation for consumerism.
I think I see the point you are making but are the areas which are still done by women now, with the many extra laws, cultural ideals and attitudes to remove or challenge being maintained because of womens acquiescence and traditional attitudes not being relinquished?

MY baby
sigh if I don’t do it none will
No dear of course go to the football, I’ll clean the house
ill take the day off work because Tarquinius is sick, you’re the Man.

@TinaPoopsy52

Men and women earning 50 of the income isn't what the pay gap is.

Its men being paid more for the same job.

The option to be a sahm is probably about the same as its always been.

Limited to a small section of society.

According to research most sahms are forced into it by lack of affordable childcare

So the idea that women are forced to work just doesn't stack up.

Men should also have the option to spend more time with their growing children. Shouldn't they?

@itrytomakemyway

Insee it as totally empty and meaningless to make women and men both earn 50% of societies earnings, it’s foolish to think that would naturally occur unless you try to constantly doctor it that way. And if you do, why? Why force the women who want to work less and want to be with their kids back to work to make up the pay gap if the women who do want to work have the choice?

That is what’s meaningless.

I don’t recognise your version of the past. 50 years ago both my grandmothers worked full time. One as a teacher, the other in whatever job she needed to do! They both had children at home at the time.

No, I think feminism has been manipulated from its original intention. Instead of women being given equality we’ve definitely just been made to do everything and I don’t believe that benefits anyone in the family - men, women or children.

Two wages are needed to live comfortably because now women are expected to work (this is different to wanting to work) this has pushed up the cost of everything. Children are in childcare from a few months old because both parents are expected by society to get back to work as soon as possible even when it doesn’t make financial sense. The lion share of household chores and caring for an older generation still fall on women.

I’m a single parent and would love to be able to be just at home to care for my family and home and have a little part time job. I think women are frowned on now to want that rather than a career.

Men and women are biologically different and have different strengths by trying to make both sexes equal we make both unhappy.

Of course women should be paid equally for the same job, but women’s roles shouldn’t be paid and valued less (ie childcare and nursing roles) than a male dominated role as still seems to happen. This is where the fight still remains. Many women are single handedly supporting whole families with these jobs and they should pay more.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth housework? I outsource that! 🤷‍♀️ I can tell you I work when I don't financially need to, does that count for anything? That even if I won the lottery, I'd still work (perhaps less admittedly, not to do housework though, to go on holiday more!), and that in my office I can think of at least 2 women who are married to very wealthy men but work full time in senior roles.

@mamabear715

No one is flaming you.

How odd

"According to research most sahms are forced into it by lack of affordable childcare"

Every SAHM I know could easily afford childcare but doesn't want to use it. That's precisely why they are a SAHM.

I mentioned violence against women as one of many ways women continue to be oppressed, yes.

50 years ago was the 70’s, not the 50’s.

If you’ve any stats/sources on DA being significantly lower, I’m happy to read them.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

100% agree

Another thing that will be better for women of my generation will be going through menopause, so much work is being done by women at the moment, still a long way to go, but I don't expect to suffer in silence, to misunderstand what's happening to me and I hope more science has been done to improve medical support.

No doubt I will be told menopause caused them no issues so I'm exaggerating

People are aware that capitalism and consumerism are to blame for economics right?

Not women who have a valid right to their own jobs and careers?

The internalised mysoginy is strong eh!

@runwalk

Anacdata doesn't trump actual data

TinaPoopsy52 I don't think you understand what the pay gap means. It is not making women earn half of the wages. It means paying people fairly and equally for doing the same job.

You cannot think it is acceptable for a man to be paid more than a woman for doing the same job?