To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

[Tsort]

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

Like the poster who said SAHMs sponge of their husband’s money?

Well he has another adult to support as well as children.

Ffs. Why do some people struggle so much with the concept of a SAHM?

Its just a slightly different relationship set-up to yours. Su what? GET OVER IT!!

What answers are you looking for from SAHMs? What do you need to know? Why are you so hung up in this?

My whole street are SAHMs or women who work very sporadically. It's totally normal. Nobody has two heads. The husbands are totally normal. It's an absolute non-issue. All this drama about SAHMs literally only exists in the heads of some people on MN. Get a grip and stop projecting your own anxiety into other people who are absolutely fine as they are.

which poster said that @Wouldloveanother

I was thinking of the ghastly posters going on about short hair manly feminist and how women who work can’t look after their children properly. Oh and the poster above who tried to insinuate I was a man and was jealous of her husband because I have a job.

@runwalk

Lol.

Are your own advice.

Why do you care what anyone thinks?

Don't open the thread if it bothers you that much.

Personally I'll keep challenging sexist and mysoginist views where I see them

I think an unequal relationship where you are using someone for an income isn’t going to be happy, no. I think you need to be honest with yourself.

@Topgub

It’s weird that me telling you who valued me being a SAHM triggered you into being snide but whatever.
who do you think valued your role? Your employer? Your replaceable there.

I don't put down working parents, if they are doing a job they enjoy and still being great parents that's great.

Putting down other women is harmful to women, in my opinion. feminism is not fixed and doesn't have specific rules.

who do you think valued your role? Your* employer? Your replaceable there.*

Certain elements of being a SAHM are replaceable like cleaning, no one is replaceable to their families, working or not. And I can assure you my family value the financial security and opportunities my job brings, just as I did my parents.

So you believe every mother who isn't working is using her husband for money?

But my husband doesn't want me to work? Is he enjoying being used? Or unaware he's being used? Is he being exploited?

Actually it was you @Wouldloveanother lol! Not jealous of your husband thanks!

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

Oh you absolutely did.

Your comment about only families like yours raising good children was savage lol.

Feminism is about choice. It’s never been about forcing women into the gender roles traditionally reserved for men.

Right but what's your point there? Our family has financial security but I just don't need to earn it specifically, just take the pressure off the one who does. What point are you trying to make ?

No I did not say only us are, go and have a look.

I said we are and that's valuable to wider society, to counter the person who said SAHM's roles are not valuable to wider society. My point is every parent doing a good job, working or not, is valuable to wider society.

Yours, and mine.

That's just how we do it for the most part, some of us work also and do it just as well. You're inferring things erroneously.

@TinaPoopsy52

Lots of people value my roles. My family certainly does. Employers yes. Employees. Client group. Wider society too.

Without roles like mine society would definitely be worse off.

Without women doing roles like mine society would be worse off.

I don’t understand why people are so fixated on the set-ups of others.

I worked part-time up until recently, but chronic health issues have put paid to that. I throw what energy I do have into my kids. It’s not their fault that I’ve developed crappy health, so why on earth would I spread myself thinly, by forcing myself to work full time, utilizing breakfast and after school clubs, when I don’t need the money?

Spare your sympathies for the women working all the hours for 25k a year, who then have zero help from their husband. Because that seems to be a more commonplace, problematic scenario.

Yes, his family, which he sees as his role, by choice. He can retire early because I'm taking pressure off. Then we can all not work.

If I also worked and he had to do school pick ups and cook meals etc. etc. he wouldn't be able to retire early as he wants to as his reputation would suffer.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

Yes you did

*Being hands on with parenting will benefit society.

Deny it all you want but the kids who are off the rails did not have parents who were as hands on as a SAHM can be. All the people in our family are functional members of society producing children who are caring and making society better, and it's because of our family values that these types of people come from us.*

The kids who were off the rails did not have parents like sahms. Our family is better because of our values (traditional)

Come on!

Own it

@Wouldloveanother
I agree with you. One of the mistakes old feminism made in the fight for women to have the choice to take on traditionally male roles is they further devalued the status of traditionally female roles. Patriarchy initially devalued them, but first wave feminism continued that. Later feminist thought, which I agree with, is saying hang on traditionally female roles are just as important to society and just as worthy of respect. That’s why it’s really about choice and equality isn’t about making all of us do traditionally male roles, but making all roles equal and making it a free society where women and men can choose how they want to live and contribute.

You know I’ve concluded from this thread that though most people (women or men) aren’t pressed by the existence of SAHM, there will always be a subsection of unselfaware career women who are deeply triggered by SAHM on an obvious and emotional level.

Perhaps it comes from them feeling like someone somewhere looked down on them for working a lot and not being a SAHM or home focused mum, or perhaps it’s borne from insecurity from when they leave their kids in daycare and perhaps some relative or so on comments on it - but anyway it’s a product of their own insecurity that they have to scream and cry about their own big important career value and try to devalue SAHM.

I mean if they’re so happy working full time then why do they get so emotionally shaken when SAHM talk about their good experiences and what their kids valued about it? Perhaps they’re just the kinds of fundamentally insecure people who take anyone not living the same lifestyle as them as an insult to their life.

@TinaPoopsy52

Oh dear.

Talk about lacking self awareness.

You can apply all that to yourself.

How can you misquote when it's right there?

Deny it all you want but the kids who are off the rails did not have parents who were as hands on as a SAHM can be

You conveniently missed that part. You need to comprehend what I'm saying better. One does not negate the other. A SAHM mum is able to be a hands on parent, so is a working mum, it's just a little more tricky when you work 9 - 5 and school finishes at 3 isn't it unless you have two bodies.

It's a little more tricky when you've been working all day in a demanding job, physically and mentally, to spend 3-7pm focused on your children. Surely you have housework and prep and maybe even work to take home?

And why deny it? I thought it was something wonderful to be proud of that you all have such a stressful demanding job that benefits society.

Right but what's your point there? Our family has financial security but I just don't need to earn it specifically, just take the pressure off the one who does. What point are you trying to make ?

My point is exactly what is written which in response to another poster not you, the poster said workers are replaceable at work and I'm merely stating certain elements of housework are also entirely replaceable, and that my family value what my job brings into the home. Just as I'm sure your family values what you do. It's not a case of one has value and one doesn't. It's all getting done.

You should really be writing SAHP instead of SAHM. This is a valuable role that can be done equally well by a mum or a dad.