To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

[Tsort]

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

I think for an adult relationship to be genuinely happy, it has to be two people with equal choices and power in the relationship. If one party gets to make the decisions or has unequal power that isn’t happy. If one party is using the other (eg for money) that isn’t happy.

He doesn’t see it as missing out not spending time with his kids?

Well the OP said, So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us. Women were doing that 50 years ago, I was doing it, my friends were doing it, the other 50 or so women dropping off at the nursery were doing it.

So why say women weren't doing it 50 years ago?

No, in the same way you don't when you're at work or they're at school or that I don't when they're at school.

So you simply don't believe any relationship with a housewife can be happy then.

Puerile.

What you say makes complete sense. If both partners are pulling their weight they won't be counting the hours as to where one's taken on more of the chores than the other, because at some stage it will balance out. That's what a partnership is.

As to your last paragraph, IME on these threads there are interesting discussions as to social structure and why it's led us into the situations we are in. But these always derail, because at some point people will insist on justifying their personal and domestic decisions to complete strangers, require affirmation for those decisions, then when others are seen to have made alternative arrangements take this as a personal affront. It happens from both sides, and then degenerates into personal insults and snide jibes like the 'desperation for a husband' one seen above.

I've no interest in how others organize their affairs, and even less interest in justifying mine to people I don't even know. It's mildly annoying that you never, ever, see men taking an interest in other men's working/domestic lives in a similar way. And before that's taken as an endorsement of men and a criticism of women, it's worth considering why they've never had to, and don't even need to concern themselves with petty trifles. Why would they? You only have to look to trite expressions like 'behind every great man ...' (ugh).

It's like a hamster on a treadmill to nowhere.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

I think you need to stop applying your own inability to cope with normal demands of every day life to everyone else tbh.

And you absolutely implied that you have to be a sahm to be a good parent with that awful comment about well raised children

Sahms are not achieving anything wp aren't.

Lol! Yeah super jealous. If only I had a husband… then I could do housework all day instead of working in an interesting professional job!

I’m a Ms not a Mx thanks- woman (unmarried mum no less) and a proud feminist. I’m not a man or any less feminine because I have a job.

Thing is you know as well as I do that working full-time takes a massive toll. I mean how can it not when it's literally a third of your life until age 65? I've seen it on here, but you wouldn't go and say 'this is your inability to cope with the demands of every day life' you wouldn't say it to the thread I posted either, because it only applies when you want it to when you need to make a dig.

I could cope with it. I simply don't want to and don't have to.

@Wouldloveanother

Nothing they've said comes across as jealousy. Quite the opposite.

It really is a pathetic attempt

@TinaPoopsy52

That's good your family values your role. Guess someone has to.

Why the put down? Why put down other women? That's not feminist at all.

If that’s what you think the quote of mine you put means then clearly you do think your relationship is not equal and you are using your dh.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

And yet you're perfectly happy for your oh to suffer this massive toll?

The way your comments come across its like you have no idea what normal daily life is like.

You imagine this unbearable stress that everyone is drowning in.

Its just not the case.

I work a hugely stressful role. It doesn't impact on the rest of my life because, believe it or not, I enjoy it.

Funny how we're all different eh?

No, that's your insinuation.

Using? Well without connotation yes we both use one another to fulfil a role within the family.

This equality thing I suppose it's all down to perspective. Even if we aren't equal, who cares? We're a working happy unit.

Emm yeah but then how are you mothering them better when they are at school anyway? Like my kids?

If your dh working means he isn’t missing out on spending time with his kids because they are at school, why does the same not apply to you?

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

What put down?

Why did you attempt to put down working parents?

And what does put downs have to do with feminism?

No it’s yours. I put that I thought a relationship had to be equal to be happy and neither party should be using the other (didn’t mention sahms at all). You responded angrily that that must mean a relationship with a sahm could never be happy.

The one where you said to her about her family value her role 'someone has to'

why did you make that put down?

I'm not angry. Okay well if you're not tlaking about SAHMs what's the relevance of your post?

That's great you enjoy it. So many don't but do it anyway out of necessity.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

Oh.

That wasn't a put down. It's just true isn't it? If someone is looking for validation of their role as pp was by saying it needs valued then to get that validation, someone needs to value the role.

Their family does. All good.

Why did you attempt to put down working parents?

And what does put downs have to do with feminism?

@Topgub im a she thanks. Proud single mum and feminist. I have long hair even!

j feel the need to say that as there has been some awful misogyny on this thread.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

So many don't but do it anyway out of necessity.

Like your oh?

Someone asked me what a I thought a happy relationship was and I responded.

@MsPincher

Sorry.

Nothing she has said comes across as jealousy. Quite the opposite.

It really is a pathetic attempt