To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

[Tsort]

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

@Topgub

My husband and kids valued my role. My parents did, my grandkids do. My friends with the same role valued it.
In the wider society Nobody gives a shit about your role either.

@bob78

Well it is obvious when she’s saying that my kids won’t respect me when they’re teens (even though they’re beyond that) because I’m a SAHM that she’s just trying to get personal because she’s become all worked up and (I assume) teary eyed to boot 🥹 Not my problem.

Some people know the price of everything but the value of nothing.,

They are trying to work it out but they can't as it's just not in them to do so. This is why they are asking perpetual questions and so clearly baffled about basic life snd the point of looking after your own kids..

Honestly, 50 years ago working class women were working. Maybe not full time (but many were) but taking in ironing and sewing working in bakeries early hours before the men went to work, cleaning, shop work, housekeeping etc and the better educated were teaching and nursing. It was the middle classes that stayed at home even then. Go back a bit further and even the children were working. Lots of children were left home alone far to young by necessity.

These days there is a safety net for all women and if you educate yourself and make the right life choices you can be just as successful as a man - i wouldn't go back to the old days by choice. I prefer earning my own money and expecting my husband to pull his weight.

Also, something inhave picked up from going back through our family tree is that the majority were renting. The men often died young following decades of manual work and no doubt time in the pub and the women went to live with their eldest child. We have more financial commitments now but a lot more independent security.

Thats really how it’s coming across

Really? Because I think it looks like you've run out of constructive arguments so you've needed to resort to personal retorts that are low blows, absolutely nothing she says has indicated she's yearning for a husband.

All the people in our family are functional members of society producing children who are caring and making society better

And so are mine, and all the women have worked in both sides of our families from our mother's generation and below, next?

Calling SAHMs lazy parasites who are setting a bad example to their kids is a ‘constructive argument’ is it? She’s been nothing but nasty (and clearly jealous) this entire thread, I engaged with goodwill at first but now it’s just transparent that whatever we say, she’ll just snipe at SAHMs and say personal things.

Theyre not contributing financially no and as I said I would have been horrified if my ex had decided to give up work.

I didn’t say looking after children or housework is a “doss job” either. It’s not a job at all. And if it’s a job your boss is your intimate partner which is hardly equal.

actually I was able to establish myself in my career and had kids in my late 30s/40s so I could give up work now if I wanted. But I don’t. And if I did I wouldn’t be doing it so I could do housework.

I hate to clean so I’d rather have my cleaner as I wouldn’t be doing that anyway. Also my kids are at school and after school club with their friends. So no, I’m not jealous of women who don’t work and I’m definitely not jealous of women who do housework all day. I hate housework!

i don’t understand why anyone would want someone who gives up work completely and never works again as a partner. That’s what I’m expressing. I can’t imagine what’s behind it other than sexism.

@Wouldloveanother so you take the higher ground and give up, don't take the bait with sexist retorts, you're not a child.

Fifty years ago I was a mum with a 1 year old and a job. The only thing I see with the young women in my family is they have cars to get to nursery, I had a long walk and then a bus ride, and they have washing machines and I was hand washing. Oh yes I was hand washing nappies as disposables were useless 50 years ago.

Nah. As the saying goes, don’t wrestle with pigs - you both get covered in muck and the pig enjoys it. Nothing constructive to be had here.

So?

Lol, again you’re making up things I said. No one said anything about lazy parasites but you.

And the last thing in the world I would want to do is give up work to do housework all day. I’d hate that!

I think you need to confront your abusive relationship- you said your husband doesn’t allow you to work. It’s not his choice. Get counseling.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth

Jeeze the mysoginy.

My goodness.

😂 are you confusing me for another poster? I work full time in a ‘man’s job’ and my DH also works full time.

@Wouldloveanother

Do you think everyone who disagrees with you is jealous?

I think the only way you can have a fair comparison and expect a fair 50/50 split is if both adults in the household have the same job, at the same place, with the same hours and the same responsibilities.

Parenting and housekeeping isn't fair. You can't measure everything in percentages and shares. You do what needs to be done, when you can do it. If it means the wife does more housekeeping when she has a free house, or the husband cleans the bathroom because he finishes earlier on Fridays, then so be it.

People generally overplay the amount they do, and underestimate the amount their partner does.

I don't care if someone is a SAHM. I do think you probably shouldn't claim you're a SAHM if all your kids are at school all day.

Not at all. I think this is the first time I’ve made such an accusation on here.

It's entirely true, as even the most cursory reading of history will illustrate. This isn't a survey of job satisfaction, or entry into the professions. It's a history of women and work. The fact that most women did work of some variety throughout the ages is easily deducible from the fact that the poor made up the vast majority of the demographic. Rich and privileged were a tiny minority until comparatively recently.

Whether our female predecessors wanted to work, or got satisfaction from doing so, was immaterial to the question previously raised, which was that it's only in the past century women have started agitating for work outside the home (not least equal pay for equal work).

It wasn't. And claiming to speak for entire successive generations of women, as to whether they took pride in their careers or otherwise, is also something of a reach.

Emm yeah I’m not worked up in the slightest. You said some nonsense about how sahm make kids happy. I said I doubt they even notice other than to have even less respect for their parents when they are teens (as teens do indeed tend to disrespect parents ime).

part Of why I continue to work is to show a good example to my dds. II could give up work and we could live more simply but I think a working mum is a good example. And I think that does matter when kids come to make their own careers choices.

@Snoozer11 absolutely, and I think it goes further than that in terms of preferences, I like cooking, DH doesn't, I hate laundry and refuse to iron, he's not quite as bothered so I do cooking and he does laundry. No point us both sharing both tasks. We both hate cleaning, so I've demanded a cleaner for years, he doesn't like spending the money on it (or at least he didn't at first when we had less money) but that didnt turn into action so I won and the cleaner started!

Also peaks and troughs with careers, at different points we've been more available. It can't be as black and white as 50/50 everything, for most at least.

I'm not saying they haven't, I'm saying what I'm doing does have societal value.
Both do. It was others saying our role doesn't, but it does, every good parent's role does.

@keepmywifesnameoutchagoddammouth completely agree, but you don't have to be a SAHM to be a good parent (nor do I believe you have to be a working parent) I think everyone parents best when they're doing what they want to do!

@MsPincher

Well like I said - they did notice and appreciate it because they have told me so. But anyway, I never would have said your kids don’t respect you because you weren’t there for them or similar - you were the one who had to take it to “your kids won’t respect you” which is pathetic and clearly shows your either upset or just a rather nasty person.

I agree but it's other posters who've said otherwise, not me.

But I do maintain that you need to enjoy your work otherwise your stress and dissatisfaction will be taken home and have a negative impact on your family. And I maintain that the norm is a very stressed mum in large part because of a demanding job alongside trying to be a hands on parent in the time she does have outside of work.