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AIBU?

To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

944 replies

Tsort · 24/09/2022 23:53

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

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mamabear715 · 24/09/2022 23:55

But men are supposed to be all things too, I think both sexes are more stressed than they used to be, to be honest.

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Cheeselog · 24/09/2022 23:56

The difference is now it’s easier for women to get rid of these useless men, and also to live without them in the first place.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:01

mamabear715 · 24/09/2022 23:55

But men are supposed to be all things too, I think both sexes are more stressed than they used to be, to be honest.

Are they? Study after study indicates that even if both partners work full time, women do the majority of domestic labour. Men might be doing more than their fathers did, but it’s certainly nowhere near 50%. Meanwhile, the majority of women work. It’s not the same at all.

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Anyoneleft · 25/09/2022 00:02

I am amazed by friends that have given up their jobs/ financial independence for their families. My job is a lot more demanding and higher paid than my husbands so we share the household tasks/parenting around our work schedule. My DD is only 10 but not a hells chance she will grow up thinking her worth/independence is less than her partners

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:11

Anyoneleft · 25/09/2022 00:02

I am amazed by friends that have given up their jobs/ financial independence for their families. My job is a lot more demanding and higher paid than my husbands so we share the household tasks/parenting around our work schedule. My DD is only 10 but not a hells chance she will grow up thinking her worth/independence is less than her partners

I can even (kinda, not really) understand giving up work. It’s the women who don’t give up work, then go home and do ALL the housework, then arrange everything and do all the ‘wifework’, and then raise their kids pretty much single-handedly…all while being married to some utterly useless piece of shit who does fuck all. It’s them
that I don't get.

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Stompythedinosaur · 25/09/2022 00:16

Nope, I don't think so.

Think about the use of tranquillisers by housewives in the fifties - I'm not convinced women were happier with fewer responsibilities but more discrimination.

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Luredbyapomegranate · 25/09/2022 00:18

Men do need to step up

But my friend’s mums who divorced in the 70s/80s were absolutely fucking shafted, and a lot of the rest were stuck in marriages they could never afford to leave because they weren’t trained to do anyone that would support them.

The workplace was a shitty place to be a woman and career advancement hard to get. The most appalling sexist and sexually aggressive behaviour was accepted because ‘that’s what men are like’.

Not to say the problems you mention aren’t problems, but you are being rose tinted about the past.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:20

Stompythedinosaur · 25/09/2022 00:16

Nope, I don't think so.

Think about the use of tranquillisers by housewives in the fifties - I'm not convinced women were happier with fewer responsibilities but more discrimination.

Women are still on antidepressants now. We additional responsibilities, still get paid less, are still subject to domestic and societal violence and are still discriminated against. It’s just more, new and different shite. The old shite hasn’t gone anywhere.

This obviously isn’t the case for everyone, but it is for a LOT of women.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:23

Luredbyapomegranate · 25/09/2022 00:18

Men do need to step up

But my friend’s mums who divorced in the 70s/80s were absolutely fucking shafted, and a lot of the rest were stuck in marriages they could never afford to leave because they weren’t trained to do anyone that would support them.

The workplace was a shitty place to be a woman and career advancement hard to get. The most appalling sexist and sexually aggressive behaviour was accepted because ‘that’s what men are like’.

Not to say the problems you mention aren’t problems, but you are being rose tinted about the past.

The past was garbage. Not rose tinted about it at all. My point is that everything you’ve stated still happens to women today. EVERY day. With the addition of new garbage.

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Dollydea · 25/09/2022 00:26

Domestic violence still happens now, but on nowhere near the same scale as it did 50 years ago, back then it was almost socially acceptable to knock your wife about, especially in working class households, many of those women still worked full time too.
There's still a long way to go, but to say we're worse off than we would've been 50 years ago is ridiculous imo.

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WorkHardPlayHard1 · 25/09/2022 00:28

Read a fantastic book about 60s women call the feminine mystique which explains how mothers in 60s were turned into modern, bored, unfulfilled housewives, like a thin veneer over slavery!

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:32

Dollydea · 25/09/2022 00:26

Domestic violence still happens now, but on nowhere near the same scale as it did 50 years ago, back then it was almost socially acceptable to knock your wife about, especially in working class households, many of those women still worked full time too.
There's still a long way to go, but to say we're worse off than we would've been 50 years ago is ridiculous imo.

A woman or girl is killed by someone in her own family every 11 minutes. In the UK a woman is killed by a man every three days. 22% of women in Western Europe suffer physical or sexual abuse from their male partners.

But, sure. DA is so much better, now.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:33

WorkHardPlayHard1 · 25/09/2022 00:28

Read a fantastic book about 60s women call the feminine mystique which explains how mothers in 60s were turned into modern, bored, unfulfilled housewives, like a thin veneer over slavery!

It’s amazing that book is almost sixth years old!

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:34

*sixty

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Manekinek0 · 25/09/2022 00:34

My DH does more than his fair share but both of us are knackered most of the time. Homemaking used to be a full time job. I get we now have mod-cons that save time but it's still time consuming. In an ideal world we would share the household chores and be able to both work part time and still have the standard of living that we have now.

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notnownorma · 25/09/2022 00:36

Luredbyapomegranate · 25/09/2022 00:18

Men do need to step up

But my friend’s mums who divorced in the 70s/80s were absolutely fucking shafted, and a lot of the rest were stuck in marriages they could never afford to leave because they weren’t trained to do anyone that would support them.

The workplace was a shitty place to be a woman and career advancement hard to get. The most appalling sexist and sexually aggressive behaviour was accepted because ‘that’s what men are like’.

Not to say the problems you mention aren’t problems, but you are being rose tinted about the past.

This. I wonder if OP actually remembers 50 years ago or is projecting from stereotypes.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:37

Manekinek0 · 25/09/2022 00:34

My DH does more than his fair share but both of us are knackered most of the time. Homemaking used to be a full time job. I get we now have mod-cons that save time but it's still time consuming. In an ideal world we would share the household chores and be able to both work part time and still have the standard of living that we have now.

In an ideal world, I’d have a yacht, a six pack and Jason Momoa on speed dial. What does your comment have to do with the questions in the OP, though?

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Nursejackie1 · 25/09/2022 00:40

No thank you. We aren’t there yet by any stretch of the imagination but let’s not be wistful for a time where there were even less choices for women

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:41

notnownorma · 25/09/2022 00:36

This. I wonder if OP actually remembers 50 years ago or is projecting from stereotypes.

As I’ve stated above, the past was shite. Things just haven’t got a lot better with regards to a lot of things in that comment and have got considerably worse in others.

Please explain how I’m ‘projecting from stereotypes’ (a rather interesting turn of phrase that you’ve just cleverly come up with).

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:42

Nursejackie1 · 25/09/2022 00:40

No thank you. We aren’t there yet by any stretch of the imagination but let’s not be wistful for a time where there were even less choices for women

I’m not being even remotely wistful. Read what you’re commenting on.

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Namenic · 25/09/2022 00:42

yeah but now it’s more possible for women to be independent if they need to be. Women have more jobs open to them, better maternity leave/SPL provision, better awareness now of sexism (it is still prevalent, but I think to a lesser extent than before). More jobs where there is ability to request part time hours.

just because the discrimination etc against women hasn’t gone away, doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate that in some areas stuff has got better.

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Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:45

Namenic · 25/09/2022 00:42

yeah but now it’s more possible for women to be independent if they need to be. Women have more jobs open to them, better maternity leave/SPL provision, better awareness now of sexism (it is still prevalent, but I think to a lesser extent than before). More jobs where there is ability to request part time hours.

just because the discrimination etc against women hasn’t gone away, doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate that in some areas stuff has got better.

Indeed. Things have got considerably better for some women. For a lot, it is has not. Im
talking about the latter group. Thus my use of ‘so many’ and ‘a lot’ in the OP, not ‘all’ and ‘every’.

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Dollydea · 25/09/2022 00:46

So given the choice you'd want things to go back to living how the average woman did 50 years ago?

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Nursejackie1 · 25/09/2022 00:46

@Tsort i agree with you and am a bit pissed sorry I was commenting on a pp

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GetRichOrDieTrying · 25/09/2022 00:50

Tsort · 25/09/2022 00:01

Are they? Study after study indicates that even if both partners work full time, women do the majority of domestic labour. Men might be doing more than their fathers did, but it’s certainly nowhere near 50%. Meanwhile, the majority of women work. It’s not the same at all.

On thé other hand, if posters on here are to believed then men are bringing more money into the household, so it sort of evens out.

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