To think a lot of women are worse off than 50 years ago?

[Tsort]

A certain type of person is nostalgic for the old days when ‘men were men, and women were women’. I am not. However, it must be noted that at the time when women were expected to be docile acquiescent homemakers, men were expected to foot the bill. They paid for dinner, sorted the mortgage and brought home the bacon. Not for me, but a fair division of labour.

Now, we have a generation of women who ‘pay their way’, go Dutch and refuse to let men pay for them as they don’t want to be indebted. Grand.

But, these same women also do the lion’s share of housework, because ‘men don’t see it’ and shoulder the emotional labour because ‘that’s just the way men are’.

So, women are now shouldering some of the traditionally male burdens while the traditional female burdens have remained firmly in place. How is this an improvement for women? And why do so many tolerate it? This is a profound misunderstanding of feminism and it hurts so many of us.

With respect, I'd rather remove my own eyes with a spoon than play the role of 'home maker'.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am childfree by choice and fucking DELIGHTED that I was born in an era in which this is considered a valid choice, albeit still something of an outlier.

As a feminist, I value and respect the role that mothers play in society, but it is not one that I want imposed on me. It is my right as a woman to go into and be seen as an equal player in the workplace.

You really are quite unpleasant aren’t you? You post asking for people’s thoughts and then respond like this when people take that one to reply.

A woman or girl is killed by someone in her own family every 11 minutes. In the UK a woman is killed by a man every three days. 22% of women in Western Europe suffer physical or sexual abuse from their male partners.

The alternative to ‘yay, things are so much better for all women now’ is acknowledging the above and trying to figure out what we can do about it. Not living in some privileged bubble. Complacency and burying one’s head in the sand is the enemy of progress.

Women's equality is an illusion, it relies on women being able to act like men for longer than was previously possible - we now have the right to stay in education until 18, and beyond if university is an option. We don't have to automatically leave jobs once we get married pregnant. Fab

But its a cold hard shock when after being treated as an equal you have your first child to find out that actually most women can't have it all.

Essentially we have been given an extra 10-15 years of illusionary equality than we used to have and we are expected to be fucking grateful for it.

What always surprises me is the extent that men will allow women to do more. They allow them to do so much more.

But are women just martyrs?

It's very complex but as a general rule, yes, women do more, get paid less and are treated badly for it.

Men need to step up. But they don't, and won't and never will. Because they have it easy and they won't purposefully make their lives harder.

Most women have always worked haven’t they? Certainly my mum, Nan and great nans always had jobs. Maybe some middle class housewives stayed at home and took tranquillisers but the vast majority of women have always worked.

I do actually think the pornification of society has damaged women and we have gone backwards in that regard.

I think you’ve got a point about married women with kids.

But as a single childfree woman I am VERY glad to be living now! I can earn my own money and live independently without (too many) sideways looks.

I’m sure many other women who for whatever reason do not live with a man will feel similarly.

I replied ‘like this’ to you saying you seem to be quite unhappy with where you currently are in life and hope that hearing about lots of others in the same boat may make you happier.

If you say things like that to people, be prepared for them to reply in kind. You’re clearlydeeply unpleasant (and staggeringly lacking in self awareness), yourself.

So basically it is due to high housing and childcare costs - that more families have to be dual income.

technology has improved - so online delivery, cheaper appliances like washing machine, dryer, ready meals (more choice and some pre-chopped stuff you then cook, making it easier to do healthy meals). Some jobs are wfh, cutting a commute (though not everyone can take advantage of this).

yes, the housework still has to be done. But if DH cheats or is violent or doesn’t do enough housework, I know I can more easily get out.

for childcare, more workplaces now have flexible hours, wfh, shared parental leave. Not everyone’s workplace has this, but it is getting more common.

Totally fair. Much better world in which to be single.

Yes, and that is a shocking statistic. It always was and it will continue to be for as long as it is a thing. I don't think anybody has said anything different.

There are huge parts of the world where inequality is still rife and many, many good women (and some men) are fighting hard to change that. It will take a long time.

However, to say that the UK in the 21st century is the same or worse for women as it was in the 1960s/70s is, quite frankly, untrue and an insult to the generations of feminists who fought to change society.

I think you're just spoiling for a fight, though, so I'm done now. Have a good evening.

Not all men are losers. My dh works full time and does more than his share around the house as I can no longer do my share as my back is so bad. He does a lot with DC too.

And don't get me started on why there isn't subsidised daycare from birth for all children. If it were free, society would be a lot more equal.

'Oh, but my husband earns more, so it makes sense for him to continue working and me to stay home and look after the children'.

The fact that it starts when the child turns three is just long enough for women to become adequately deskilled enough not to be able to find a decent job upon their return to work.acl of career progression, pension contributions etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Yet more proof that you’re deeply unpleasant. Are you actively trying to get banned or are you under the impression that’s acceptable behaviour?

I’ve asked you to tell me how women are better off, you’ve fired off a few platitudes and accused me of spoiling for a fight…on my own post. Yes, you have a good evening, as well.

Then this post isn’t about you. I’m delighted for you.

Yes to all of this.

If I compare myself with my dm who was 42 y older than me....

I drive, she did not
I have a degree, she did not
I have a career, she was a school dinner lady on minimum wage
I have my own money, my own pension, she did not.
I have a washing machine, a dishwasher a freezer, she did not
I've travelled extensively, she had not
I eat out, she did not

I am single with one ds, my own home, freedom to do as I wish.
She was married with 5 children and an abusive dh, a drudge for 45 years.
I am independent, and thank my lucky stars I was not born 50 years earlier.

So, no I don't agree. I have a happy, enjoyable life. She did not, which is sad.

Women only became able to open their own bank accounts in the 1960s in the UK. That level of structural sexism has gone where women were basically infantilised. Plus of course accessible birth control, mat leave and pay, much better pay equality, recognition of marital rape as a criminal act etc etc. On that basis YABU to say that a lot of women were worse off 50 years ago. It’s far from perfect today but it’s not correct to say many women are in a worse state than before.

I’m perfectly fine. You think that looking up previous posts and bringing up my fertility treatment is acceptable behaviour and my pointing out that’s unpleasant is me ‘deciding to be insulting again’?

What exactly is wrong with you? Seriously?

I’m not engaging anymore. I’m just just going to report your nonsense and leave you to MN.

Think you need to lay off the wine & go to bed tbh.
You're clearly only interested in belittling others who disagree with what you've posted.

I actually feel quite sorry for you. Hope things get better for you soon.

50 years ago was 1972, when we already had or were in the process of getting rather a lot of those things. And the fact that certain things are currently illegal doesn’t mean they aren’t common or tolerated.

I take your point(s). However, for a lot (not all) of women, the above hasn’t massively changed. And a lot of additional pressures have been brought to bear.

That’s fine. Nobody is making you read or post on this thread.