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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To hope that we welcome men fleeing Russia

354 replies

MindYourBeeswax · 24/09/2022 17:07

Many are fleeing Putin's Press Gangs.
The EU Council President has recommended that the EU offer them asylum.

It must be bloody terrifying and, although we're not in the EU longer, I hope that this government follow his example and offer sanctuary as we have done for fleeing Ukrainians.

I know that they will be young men and not need to live with families in the same way that Ukrainian women and children did so although that would be ideal, it's not essential and hostels/hotels could be used.

Will you offer a home if asked? I can't but I would like to help in some way.
AIBU to hope that we will help these fleeing Russians?

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 13:39

www.express.co.uk/news/world/1648470/russia-news-legion-freedom-battalions-ukraine-war-putin-latest/amp

“Igor Sushko, director of the Wind of Change Research Group, a think tank based in Washington, DC, told Express.co.uk: "[The group] started some time ago, since the beginning of the invasion. Some Russian soldiers decided to surrender [to Ukraine] and were allowed to, over time and after some training, fight for Ukraine.

"There's active recruitment going on inside Russia for volunteers to come fight. So these are Russians, it is all completely comprised of Russians fighting against Putin’s regime."

However, Mr Suskho says they are now recruiting civilians inside of Russia who are opposed to the war to carry out various anti-Kremlin activities.“

Whammyyammy · 25/09/2022 13:47

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 13:35

No, a lot of them haven’t. There’s been a LOT of anti war activism happening within Russia, and not just in regards to the protests.

and there are Russians fighting for Ukraine, with support coming for them from within Russia as well. There’s not a lot of information out there about them because there can’t be.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/14/russians-fighting-for-ukraine

Well I'm only going by what's been reported and fact checked, I don't have access to russian resistance movements. What I do know is:

Russia invaded Ukraine ✔️
Residential areas deliberately bombed✔️
Mass graves of civilians ✔️
Mass looting in Ukraine ✔️
Women and children raped ✔️

Threats of nuclear weapons by Russian leader regularly added to the mix.

The Russian people can either

  1. Support thier leader
  2. Flee Russia
3 .Mass protests

I've only seen 1 and now 2, the odd minor protest has been reported, but considering the size of their population, its very small %..so can only conclude that its a minority against the above atrocities

LaBellina · 25/09/2022 13:56

We can’t provide asylum for the whole world. Besides, many of them have supported the war before, my sympathy is with the Ukrainians.

Suetwo · 25/09/2022 14:12

I admire anyone who opposes the invasion on moral grounds and chooses to leave Russia rather than fight. Unfortunately, having an open door policy will lead to problems. Why? Because people will take advantage. They always do. It’s the same with the benefits system. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have a benefits system (we should), and I’m not saying we shouldn’t help Russian men fleeing Russia (we should), all I AM saying is be realistic and sensible. Real life isn’t like a sickly Hollywood movie. Lots of the Russians who move to Germany or the U.K. will just be rootless young men who see an opportunity to start a new life in a rich country. It’s the same with the channel migrants. We keep being told they are “frightened refugees, fleeing war and persecution.” Then you look at the footage of people arriving and see nothing but fit young men (where are the women and children and old people? Presumably left behind to face the “war and persecution”).

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 17:18

Whammyyammy · 25/09/2022 13:47

Well I'm only going by what's been reported and fact checked, I don't have access to russian resistance movements. What I do know is:

Russia invaded Ukraine ✔️
Residential areas deliberately bombed✔️
Mass graves of civilians ✔️
Mass looting in Ukraine ✔️
Women and children raped ✔️

Threats of nuclear weapons by Russian leader regularly added to the mix.

The Russian people can either

  1. Support thier leader
  2. Flee Russia
3 .Mass protests

I've only seen 1 and now 2, the odd minor protest has been reported, but considering the size of their population, its very small %..so can only conclude that its a minority against the above atrocities

I’ve already posted links here in regards to the protest movement. In less than twenty days 13,000 people were detained across Russia, so yes, there have been ‘mass protests’. In response Putin banned protest, and those detained were tortured and faced charges of treason. How many regime changes have you been involved in? You seem to think it’s an easy thing to achieve, so please illuminate me. I’d love to know how you went about it.

Here’s another link, it’s Wikipedia but it does provide at least an overview:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

you’ve only seen ‘1 and now 2’ because that’s what you’ve looked for in order to confirm your biases.

Duchess379 · 25/09/2022 17:40

Nope. Don't trust the Russians as far as I can throw them. If they're that concerned, they should go to Ukraine & fight for their freedom.

minsmum · 25/09/2022 18:11

13000 out of a population of 144 million is a very small percentage

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 18:46

minsmum · 25/09/2022 18:11

13000 out of a population of 144 million is a very small percentage

That’s the amount they managed to arrest in less than 20 days. It’s not the total amount of protestors, or the total amount arrested.

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 19:17

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 18:46

That’s the amount they managed to arrest in less than 20 days. It’s not the total amount of protestors, or the total amount arrested.

It could be 1M whump - and that would still be a very small amount of people as a percentage. Is it close to 1M? More ?

If so, why aren’t we hearing about these. Hundreds of thousands of resistors?

You seem hellbent on positioning other justifiably held views on fleeing Russian men as being xenophobic and unreasonable by coming up with stats to counter the notion that there isn’t support in Russia for Putin.

There is, a lot of support. And it’s not the role of GB nor any other country, under the current circumstances to incur any costs or afford any benefit of the doubt here.

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 19:20

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 17:18

I’ve already posted links here in regards to the protest movement. In less than twenty days 13,000 people were detained across Russia, so yes, there have been ‘mass protests’. In response Putin banned protest, and those detained were tortured and faced charges of treason. How many regime changes have you been involved in? You seem to think it’s an easy thing to achieve, so please illuminate me. I’d love to know how you went about it.

Here’s another link, it’s Wikipedia but it does provide at least an overview:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

you’ve only seen ‘1 and now 2’ because that’s what you’ve looked for in order to confirm your biases.

And most people will not have had strongly held views on Russia other than to know they poisoned a few people in Winchester, owned Chelsea and keep flying their bears in foreign airspace on unauthorised drills, so what confirmation bias is it you actually think people have here.

StridTheKiller · 25/09/2022 19:33

Yes why not! Fuck it! Lets just host the whole world's population?

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 20:49

Not difficult to ascertain if you bother to read the rest of the conversation.

Quincythequince · 25/09/2022 20:54

If that was directed at me, I have read everything.

powershowerforanhour · 25/09/2022 20:59

Hmm, Russia has a long and distinguished history of spies, poisoners, sabotage and cyberterrorism doesn't it? Don't give them an open goal!

Also, asylum seekers tend to get housed close to each other- groups of angry bored young Russian men near vulnerable Ukrainian women and children? That's going to go well. I give it about 5 minutes before a Ukrainian teenager gets raped and battered on our watch.

And I'm not sure the Syrian refugees already here are going to love a bunch of Russians turning up next door.

LoveLarry · 25/09/2022 21:46

I think if the russian men want to leave the country they can head to Belarus, Syria, or somewhere to the east. Stay away from
Europe though

Joystir59 · 25/09/2022 21:48

No way would I offer a home to a stranger

Whammyyammy · 25/09/2022 22:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RootinandTootin · 25/09/2022 22:53

I personally think we should stay out of this political game completely.

Fairyliz · 25/09/2022 23:03

An advantage to Brexit at last. We can ignore the advice of the EU president.
Let the EU take them in if they want too.

theadultsaretalking · 25/09/2022 23:19

I think there is so much misinformation about the state of Russia at the moment that for anyone not knowing anyone on the ground is hard to understand what's going on.

Yes, a few people out there support the war (especially in the regions where there is a lack of alternative information, but not only there), but at the same time, there are also quite a few who are against it - why would Putin declare public criticism of war a crime legally punishable by a lengthy jail sentence otherwise?

Secondly, Russia is huge, so coordinating any kind of organised uprising is difficult, bearing in mind that any credible opposition has been decimated over the past few years, and communication channels are compromised. However, smaller protests have been going on since before the start of the war - not as impressive visually, but people are still trying, often at a great cost to themselves.

The police, which is much better equipped and financed than the Russian army, has been increasingly brutal - beatings and torture are commonplace and are getting worse.

The conscription was announced as reservists-only, but in fact, anyone could be sent in. People trying to escape to Europe are often young guys - not hardened soldiers, many of whom protested until the last minute. Some young protesters were given conscription papers instead of a jail term after the latest arrests.

Saying that I totally understand the Baltic states not wanting to take any Russian guys in. Still, I think globally, we need to find a way of proactively helping the Russian opposition to regroup. After all, we don't want a madman with nuclear power; no do, we want an unfocused revolution where we don't know who will get into power.

whumpthereitis · 25/09/2022 23:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Diversify your witticisms. Reddit is a goldmine, I’m sure you can find another to borrow.

Yes, 13,000 arrested in 20 days. Not arrested in total, and not the number of protestors in total. Had to bothered to read anything provided you would of course have been aware of that. Anyway, you’re clamoring for action by ranting on a message board, so inconsequential as you may find it, it’s more of a contribution than yours, expert on regime change as you apparently are 🙂

minsmum · 25/09/2022 23:49

@theadultsaretalking
We should not be helping the Russian opposition, their government is an internal matter for the people of a sovereign nation. Regime change influenced by the West has never ended well and we should learn from history, just because we don't like the decisions Russia makes does not give anyone the right to interfere, well intentioned or not

theadultsaretalking · 25/09/2022 23:57

minsmum · 25/09/2022 23:49

@theadultsaretalking
We should not be helping the Russian opposition, their government is an internal matter for the people of a sovereign nation. Regime change influenced by the West has never ended well and we should learn from history, just because we don't like the decisions Russia makes does not give anyone the right to interfere, well intentioned or not

Fair point, but I don't think we should kick the opposition down either, while simultaneously asking them to 'deal with it'. They are dealing with it, the best they can under some really difficult circumstances. Personally, I am not sure I would be brave enough to face the police and the prospect of going down for 10 years...

ShootingForTheMoonLandingOnMyArse · 25/09/2022 23:59

There will plenty of these men who support the invasion of Ukraine, with the atrocities that have taken place, but are too lily livered to actually fight themselves. I certainly do not want them here, it is not feasible and pretty ridiculous to even contemplate.

If they’re that scared of Putin, Zelenskyy has said he will welcome them on his side.

minsmum · 26/09/2022 00:00

@theadultsaretalking but if you look at the opposition, Navalney for instance, they are in favour in the annexation of Crimea