To think most Brexiteers must now regret their vote?

[hoovermanouvre]

If you voted Brexit, do you feel like you have been able to "Take Back Control?" If so, where? Can anyone state one positive change since Brexit - I would genuinely like to hear at least something. Anything?

YANBU - I voted Brexit but now regret it
YABU - I voted Brexit and can see a benefit

I agree with some of this.

We absolutely need to stop showing contempt towards those who are not intelligent and/or informed enough to understand what they are voting for, and we need to do a much better job of explaining things in a way that actually makes sense to people. Dismissing them as stupid doesn't help anyone.

As for showing less contempt towards those who are selfish, blinkered or ideologically driven? Nah, some points of view are not worthy of respect, and contempt is entirely appropriate.

You need people who voted Tory last time and possibly Brexit to return if you want to win.

It shows little understanding of why landslides happen to always demonise the voters you lost last time.

The think is, the people who voted Tory at the last election because they were selfish, blinkered or ideologically driven are not likely to vote differently next time. They will still be as selfish, blinkered and ideologically driven as they were the last time.

The people who voted Tory last time because they genuinely believed that the Tories were the better option for society as a whole won't be persuaded to vote for an alternative because opposition supporters make them feel like it was a perfectly valid decision to vote the way they did. It isn't flattery that will win them over in the end, but rather their own lived experience of how things worked out for them and whether or not the Tories delivered what they wanted them to.

Before the Referendum Kwasi Kwarteng compared Brexit to Henry 8 and the change from following Rome to being Protestant.
It was done without anyone knowing what a Protestant country would look like. There had never been one that changed before.

It took a long time for Europe to be reconciled to that.
Whereas in within England & Wales there was no real urge to return to Rome. There was no 'popular uprising' against the Church of England.
The Resistors were mainly Landed Gentry such as the Tresham family and the Stuarts.
Look at the problems the Stuarts caused. The Pretenders to the Crown. They caused the civil wars in Scotland. 1715, and 1745, I think.
Both events were inevitable. We are starting to see people willing to move on and work for the common good.

This sounds like all the people who voted differently are not intelligent or informed

Is that what you meant?

No, that isn't what I meant.

I think some people voted Tory because they didn't fully understand the implications of what they were voting for.

I think others voted Tory knowing exactly what they were voting for. And if they knowingly voted for the really terrible impact that Tory policies have had on the most vulnerable in our society, I can only assume that they must have been either selfish or blinkered or ideologically driven, or perhaps a combination of all three.

Are you really suggesting that there were no lies told by the Remain side?

Did you vote for Corbyn? Out of interest. If so you are unlikely to be swayed to another party

I think a large problem for Labour last time is he lost so many votes. A party needs to connect with the electorate otherwise you get landslides in the other direction.

I understand it then feels good to say people were uninformed or selfish but it’s not being accountable for the reason for the loss

Imo Starmer does understand it and is now putting clear water between next time and last time. He needs those middle voters who switched last time to come back. For me that means being positive not accusatory. He is doing well with that. His supporters probably not.

Sorry, this is incorrect. If you look at itv research recently into housing conditions, you'll see what the issues are.

No, I disliked Corbyn so I voted green in the last election. I totally agree that the Labour Party were at fault for not putting forward an electable opposition, but there were other parties available.

I'm not a Labour Party member. Truth be told, I have been unimpressed with the Labour Party in recent years. I want them to be better but I am perpetually disappointed. Let's hope that they're getting their act together now.

I didn't want Corbyn, but he was still the lesser of two evils in my opinion. The impact of a Tory government on the poor was entirely foreseeable in my view, and it was clear to me that Boris was a man without any conscience or integrity. I probably would have held my nose and voted for Labour under Corbyn if I had thought that there was any realistic hope in my constituency of keeping the Tories out, but I knew that it wasn't going to happen.

There is no doubt that some Tory voters are not informed. Plenty repeated the Tory lie of at least the Conservatives know what a woman is🙄 and some believe the Conservative policy of Self ID was accidental.

But your doing exactly ,that assuming they are not intelligent or informed enough ,just because you don't agree with the way they have voted.

I disagree as I’ve learnt so much from posters on the FWR board. Highly informed and very good at getting their message across.

MrsBennet you sound like Labour would get your vote again if they didn’t disappoint. Over to them to manage it. To put it bluntly the electorate is not responsible for the failings of a party to connect.

I’d like Labour to escape their recent path too and go back to that positivity, sounds like they are getting it together.

Don’t apologise. It is a fact that property cannot be let unless it meets minimum standards. The slum housing of the 1970s did not meet those standards. That is why they were condemned.

I am not sure I understand what bankers have to do with the engineers and scientists who developed better TVs, phones, washing machines and so on?
Do bankers now create new technologies and media platforms like the one we are using?

There are exactly the kinds of pettifogging regulations that we voted to leave the EU to get rid off. All of these regulations just make life harder for businesses, without them, they could rip people off much easier, which is exactly why I had to vote to leave the EU.

Ok then…

Whatever the regulations say officially, the fact is that, in reality, many rental properties absolutely do not meet those standards, and getting landlords, sometimes even the council for council-owned properties, to bring their properties up to standard is an impossible task. Many landlords illegally let their properties.

Well nobody I know regrets it, they hate the EU even more if anything. They got everything they wanted and they can own the whole shit show.
What they don't get though, it me to stop going on about it and blaming them for the damage they've done.

You would be wrong. I don't know anyone who voted Leave who now regret it. However, I know three people who were Remain voters who have since changed their minds. Even the couple who haven't changed their minds have recognised it's done and they are getting on with their lives and aren't stuck in a pit of whining doom and gloom like some.

Oh, its much better than OK, don't you think it is brilliant that we can get rid of regulations that mean peoples homes are safer, so that businesses can make more money?

No, you are misunderstanding. I am not assuming that all of them were unintelligent and uninformed at all.

I believe that a lot of them were unintelligent and/or uninformed, and that they did not know or understand what the impact of Tory policies would be on vulnerable people.

I fully accept, however, that many did know exactly what they were voting for; they understood the likely impact of Tory policies on vulnerable people, and they voted for them anyway. Those are the ones who were selfish, blinkered or ideologically driven.

Yes, I will vote for them again if they can get it together properly.

I like Keir Starmer. I think he is a very intelligent, decent and thoughtful man. I'm not sure if he is going to be able to cut through to the electorate though. Time will tell, I suppose.

I always regretted the fact that Yvette Cooper didn't win the Labour leadership when she went for it. I think we might have been in a very different position now if she had.

Middle class socialists working in the public sector utterly fail to understand that poorer people HATE being patronised as "not intelligent and informed" and can appreciate the benefits of the free market.

Ah so basically you are just back to throwing insults at people who don't vote the way you think they should
Because obviously you are far more informed then them and your opinion is far more important than theirs gotcha.