To think most Brexiteers must now regret their vote?

[hoovermanouvre]

If you voted Brexit, do you feel like you have been able to "Take Back Control?" If so, where? Can anyone state one positive change since Brexit - I would genuinely like to hear at least something. Anything?

YANBU - I voted Brexit but now regret it
YABU - I voted Brexit and can see a benefit

🥱 🥱 Haven’t you got anything better to do?

@hoovermanouvre

zero benefits to brexit only harm.
just the facts

Yeah this is part of the problem, the UK has pretty shit productivity partly because the availability of cheap labour has meant that businesses haven’t invested in automation and efficiencies they haven’t needed to. The allowance for capital investments has now been raised to 1 million so hopefully businesses will think more about how to become more productive.

The EU can use its size to spread the pain around

But it doesn’t. It left the PIGS to their fates after 2008. You may argue that is a Euro problem and not an EU problem (fair) but it’s kind of ridiculous to suggest they would choose to spread the pain around when past history doesn’t really suggest that.

Again, the UK could take an advantage being outside the EU and Eurozone, but I don’t believe they are nimble enough to pull a Singapore or Hong Kong-style economy out of their ass. (And too many Brits would think they are too Capitalistic even though they generally have higher living standards than you do).

But I also don’t think you want to go down with the rest of Europe—I truly think they have peaked economically and will only decline from here.

Although I really do consider UK part of Europe I. a larger sense so perhaps you will all go down together, and there’s really no avoiding it.

Thats got literally nothing to do with Brexit.

Aside from which the warning from her is welcome - Meloni is a fascist. That's the last thing Italy needs when there is the unstable Ukraine situation, far more refugees as a result, and the subsequent easy pickings dog whistle situation that that creates for foreigner hating right wingers like Meloni.

OP Brexit was a disaster but it's not possible to have a calm conversation about it online.

Of course I don't regret voting for Brexit, it showed the foreigners what we think of them. We have taken back control of our borders, so have more people than ever risking everything to cross the channel in small boats. We have ensure that inflation in the UK is world beating and best of all we have taken back control of our laws from elected representatives in Brussels in order to have unelected Head of State and Head of Government.

It isn't just the people who voted for Brexit - don't forget we then had a general election when people again had the option to stop Brexit by simply voting LibDem - on that occasion they chose to go ahead with Brexit by an even greater majority.

Thats all myth - there is no evidence that the uk used cheap labour instead of investment in tech.
Historically, UK business don't invest, they didn't in ship building, steel, cars, lorries, rail, motorcycles or bicycles - all declined or vanished, stats show that in the 50s Triumph/Norton and BSA were (combined) making equivalent profit to that of microsoft now... did they invest? or carry on making m/c based on 1930s designs?

UK companies like profit, dividend & director pay... thats what they are judged on, not R&D or productivity, as per usually, uk always takes the short tern view.
UK wages have not been that low and if they are, have been driven low, not by EU migration but by very low inflation/interest rates and by decline in union power.

As we go into a recession or perhaps a depression and global one at that, UK business wont be spending money on new technology, the opposite will happen.

Meloni is to the left of Truss and Kwarteng.

I laugh when people say party X in europe is far right, the Tories are the far right party in Europe.

I don't know why you are getting a hard time op...I want to know too.

This country is a complete shit show and yet we are not allowed to ask pertinent questions about Brexit as we might sow divisions.....er right.

Hence lots of threads asking people if they now regret voting Tory ( i want to know too).

The thing is that Brexit could have been completely different from how it is now.
Brexit isn’t to blame for issues per se- it’s the way it was negotiated and enacted by the Tory government. I wouldn’t say the deal we ended up with was the best, and things would have been far better if we had negotiated better terms than what we ended up with and how it was enacted.
I would say that with a different government in control, it has the potential to be far better than the way it currently works.

The trouble with Brexit is that since Freedom Day we have had a series of Remainer Prime Ministers who haven't really believed in Brexit. Now that we have Liz Truss who is a true Brexiteer everything will get sorted out.

Staff shortages due to fewer cheaper East European migrants meaning more job vacancies for working class Brits and resulting pay rises. For the first time since the expansion of the EU in 2004, employees are calling the shots. Certainly in my neck of the country anyway (North).

I honestly don't understand how the "socialists" on Mumsnet haven't supported Brexit. It has helped the indigenous working classes and surely all you left wingers should be chuffed to bits with that, no?

I get that most middle class mumsnetters are pissed off because they have lost their cheap domestic staff and their retirement plans to Portugal are fucked.

I was a bloody remainer as well.

What planet are you on?

Average pay rises in UK is approx 6%, inflation is 10% so we are getting poorer.

Pre Brexit, inflation was 1 or 2% avg pay rises 2%

Staff shortages? yes in social care, nhs, drivers, so we have even worse healthcare and supply issues, big benefit for the low paid who can't afford BUPA.

Brexit has also led to Truss and huge pay rises for the wealthy and v little for everyone else.

Most people i know who wanted to retire to europe etc were in trades, able to do up a small house, not poor but hardly M/C either.

I bet you were a remainer.

This doesn’t make sense to me. “Working class” Brits generally earn more than “middle class” ones. People in trades, construction earn more than those in most office jobs.

Benefits:

We are no longer on the irreversible 'ever closer union' path to being part of a superstate.

We can make our own trade arrangements around the world, without having to wait for the agreement of 27 other countries.

We will remain fully in control of our own defences and armed forces, and will not have other nations voting us in to an EU army.

We have been able to offer more extensive help to Ukraine.

We were able to respond to COVID more quickly and effectively.

We can have a more inclusive immigration policy to welcome people from around the world on an equal footing, not just the (mostly white, as it happens) EU.

All our laws are decided in this country, by MPs who are directly elected by British constituents and can be voted out.

We don't have to endure the contrived accessories of something which isn't a country but has awarded itself a flag, anthem, motto, annual celebration day, currency, parliament, outer borders, passport and so-called 'citizenship' of itself.

We have the opportunity to replace the Common Agricultural Policy to improve the situation for British farmers.

Jgw thank you for the (grim) laughs at least!

My mother and sister both bitterly regret voting for it and are quite vocal about how everything has turned to shit. They feel they were lied to and manipulated, which they were, in fairness.

Productivity in the usa has increased due to increases in automation due to a shortages in labour.

www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/05/19/automation-labor-economy/

www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-automation-insight-idUKKCN1MO0CT

So if businesses respond to labour shortages by introducing things like automation it stands to reason they previously didn’t because there was no push to do so due to a plentiful supply of labour.

The increase in capital investment allowances for businesses up to a million should support smaller businesses to start investing in being more productive.

I’m not making a comment on the EU or immigration from the EU, just a much narrower point about UK productivity. Businesses will respond to higher production costs (whether you run a manufacturing site or a clothes shop) by trying to reduce those costs. Higher wage costs or higher regulation around employment encourage firms to invest to reduce overheads.

On an aggregate level immigration increases gdp due to increased economic activity.

What's there to laugh about? It isn't funny.

And yes our Tory party is very right wing which is awful and I doubt many people don't know it very clearly already. But making that point I'd just whataboutism. Plus it ignores the horrific Mussolini like history of Italy, a sentiment that lingered over the years under many different auspices, and which Meloni has profited off of for votes.

The thing is, Brexit could not have been different from how it is now, because those pushing it had a rather obvious agenda that people chose to ignore when they voted, instead listening to the thin veneer of populist bollocks covering the obvious real agenda. And then they listened to populists again in general elections, thus ensuring those pushing the agenda continued to control the direction of flow. The moral of the story is not to vote for a fantasy.

I know of one Brexit benefit! We were able to impose sanctions of Russian Oligarchs who have duel nationality with Finland, the rest of the EU can't as they're EU citizens. That is all.