Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

[Hope54321]

I’m seeing a lot more of this attitude quite recently. Why do people have children if they can’t look after them or pay for their childcare? Why is it that grandparents are expected to do the childcare so the parents can work? I think it’s acceptable if the grandparents are offering to help out, but to feel like grandparents should be obliged to offer childcare is simply taking the biscuit.

[whumpthereitis]

@PlumPudd

I didn’t say making rational cold cost benefit motivated decisions was negative @whumpthereitis. You’re reading a lot into the word cold which can be used to mean the opposite of hot headed, or emotional.

Nor did I say other people were required to step in.

You’ll see from a previous message I posted that I said I agreed with the OP that grandparents shouldn’t feel pressured into offering childcare, but that in a similar spirit to the way OP is expecting parents to rationally chose to have kids or not, grandparents who don’t want to provide any care should just step up and say so. Problem solved.

What I said was that wasn’t typical human behaviour to make decisions in this rational calculating way and that it was therefore a bit disingenuous / credulous for OP to ask why people have kids if they can’t afford them, when the vast vast majority of life decisions aren’t made in a way that is informed by future economic predictions.

But for those people that have made their decisions based on what is rational, it is hard to understand those who don’t. Knowing full well that it happens does not mean you can particularly understand why. Especially when you see the anticipated negative consequences play out.

[NanaNelly]

I’m fortunately in a position to give my children has much help as they need with my grandchildren and I don’t begrudge them a minute of it. I still have my own life outside of childcare and all it involves for my 8 grandchildren and as long as I’m able to support my children I’ll continue doing so. It’s great fun and I love being with my grandchildren.

[Sidisawetlettuce]

@tfresh

It's the world grandparents have created. Most families will require 2 working parents to have any chance of putting a roof over the kids head.

Grandparents could avoid this by giving back to the system that has given them so much. However, I don't see this happening anytime soon, so maybe chin up and help out.

Well that's a lorry load of bollocks for a start.

[grumpybunny]

So many things that feed into such an attitude. Seeing other families where grandparents provide childcare, growing up in an extended family where you saw others get such support but for some reason it isn’t available to you. I had this scenario and it was an eye opener but I don’t hold it against anyone, I can see why some people would say no. Thankfully managed on my own for early years before DH’s job finally got some
flexibility. On the plus side it means I owe the cult of the extended family ‘support network’ sweet FA.

[Campervangirl]

It's a lovely idea for dgp's to take on the childcare.
I'm mid 50's, working full time, can't afford to retire until I'm 67, I've been taking care of my elderly dm (stage 4 cancer, recently passed away) whilst trying to hold down my full time job.
Dd is TTC and I'd love to help with any potential childcare but I need to work.
I've spent my whole adult life working and looking after children and dm.
When dd was a child I had to pay for childcare, no free nursery hours back then, my dps were still working.
When do I get to do just me?
Then you get ops stating how easy we've had it 🙄

[grumpybunny]

Though I should add, I’d hope to be in a position where I could support my DCs in the future in this way, in as healthy a dynamic as possible (fingers crossed).

[Lunabun]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I don't feel strongly either way.

But I think grandparents helping is kind of just how life goes. isn't it? No, you don't have to. But wider family pitching in with kids is how society has worked all over the world since pretty much forever. So I don't really think it's entitled to expect it tbh, though I think it would be rude/entitled to try and insist on it if the grandparents decline.

At the same time, I have no opinion on GPs who decide they don't want to help out. Fair enough, horses for courses.

[MarieC59]

Is this increase of entitlement on mumsnet? I don't see an increase out in the world, with the people I know. In fact, nobody I know counts on their parents for regular childcare and are usually reluctant to ask for even occasional babysitting. Much easier to find good reliable childcare for both work and leisure with no strings attached.

[TooHotToTangoToo]

@Dotjones

Everything a child does, even when they reach adulthood, is ultimately the responsibility of their parents and grandparents. Therefore it's right that grandparents should be expected to provide free childcare for their grandchildren; if they didn't want to do this, they shouldn't have had children of their own in the first place, that way the grandchildren could never have existed.

this has to be a wind up!

[Limesaregreen]

I think it's entirely up to the grandparents but what some entitled children never seem to consider is if they have siblings who also have children - are the grandparents supposed to help bring them all up??? If the grandparents look after one set of grandkids two days a week are they expected to look after another set the same? Could end up having no time to themselves at all.

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

@NotAHouse

In the past, we had a village. Now we have none. Parents get no break.

My parents are long-since dead, gone before my child was born. My mum at least would have made a wonderful grandparent. The in-laws were hardly attentive parents, let alone grandparents. They actually forgot my husband's 10th birthday. They have never so much as babysat our 7-yo, much less taken on a regular childcare commitment. They owe us nothing, have offered nothing, we've asked for and have taken nothing, and in turn owe them precisely nothing. No obligations there whatsoever.

Suits me, for one. DC and DGP do have a relationship, purely on the in-laws' own terms, which amounts to about 3 visits per year. It's all facilitated through DH; I'm no longer involved.

We knew before we had DC there would be no breaks. We were fine with that choice.

[Gentleman1]

I can only put it down to weakness by those that agree to something they do not really want.

[GettingOrganisedNow]

My parents were always clear that they would not provide full-time childcare but we're happy to help out, and I fully agreed with that. They retired around the time the GCs were born, and my sister and I both wanted them to enjoy their retirement, having both worked since leaving school at 16.

They both have hobbies, enjoy travelling, and have friends round; they do a day's childcare for each of us (my sister and I - all the kids are at school, so it's just picking them up and being there for a couple of hours) and they're happy to step in if there's an emergency, and they usually have each set of GCs for a night during school holidays. Everyone's happy.

On the other hand, when SIL had kids, she expected MIL to mind them full time as soon as she went back to work - so MIL drive to her house for 6.30am, waited till school time and dropped off whichever ones were in school, drove home with the pre-schoolers, then went back to do the school run (which was sometimes 2 runs when they got out at different times). Then she'd do homeworks and get them fed and changed, ready to be collected. She also did things like going to the post office to collect missed parcels, sorting out tradesmen who'd come to do stuff to SIL's house - all those little things that add up to quite a bit of hassle if you have a toddler under your arm. She died at just 60, and DH is fairly sure that the childcare was a big factor because she was just permanently exhausted, and never got a break. But they had the attitude that "family help each other", which mainly seemed to translate to "mum will do everything".

[Suedomin]

it's right that grandparents should be expected to provide free childcare for their grandchildren; if they didn't want to do this, they shouldn't have had children of their own in the first place

Is this serious? Having a child doesn't mean you are then responsible for them for the rest of their lives or for any children they may have! That is just complete nonsense

[antelopevalley]

Surely most grandparents are still working?
I will be working until at least 67.

[Cillery]

When we brought up our kids our parents lived too far away to provide full time child care but they did help out. I told my kids that I will not be a full time childminder for them but of course we don’t mind helping out.

[Nowheretoogo]

Probably because it was the norm when I was young,my grandparents watched us every morning before school plus every day in the school holidays.my own parent’s don’t help me by the way.

[Bluevelvetsofa]

When my grandchildren were born, I was working full time as a senior teacher and couldn’t give that up because we would have been homeless. I looked after the first during the holidays so her mum could have a break and I babysat nearly every weekend. The same when the second arrived. We had them for weekends and, when I went part time, I collected from school. They’re old enough not to need childcare now.

We were two working parents and I used a child minder. There was no free childcare at all. My in laws wouldn’t have offered; my mum lived with us, but didn’t want the responsibility. I did enjoy having them around, but as you get older, it’s more and more difficult.

We were financially struggling when our children were small. Things eased a bit when they were grown and we had a bit more disposable income. Things are tight again now, as they are for many. We’ve helped out our children in many practical ways and childcare has been one of them.

[Clockwatching54321]

@whumpthereitis

‘It takes a village’ - a willing village though, surely? And even among those, what form this takes will vary according to the villagers you ask.

life may be harder nowadays, but ultimately your kids are your responsibility, and that’s something to consider before you have them.

I like this analogy it really does depend on the willing of the village. It then also works both ways when people are aging and need help with shopping or cleaning that their village may be less willing depending how they were treated.

I don’t think it’s right to expect regular childcare, although it amazing and hats off to those GP. I think it’s acceptable to expect GP to be involved, offer occasional babysit and generally be supportive.

My mother was a SAHP and used the phrase I’ve done my time. So basically isn’t involved and has never even babysat my kids.

I can’t wait to be a GP and be more involved. I will most definitely be helping as much as I can.

[GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing]

This dependence on grandparents isn’t going to work for the country in the long term. We need proper investment in affordable childcare.

Grandparents of the boomer generation can kind of manage this because they’ve not had to work full time whilst raising their own children, and many have been able to retire early ish with few money worries.

I say this as someone who has paid for their own childcare as no family near by (had grandparents visit for the odd day sometimes and been helpful, or asked to have and had the kids to stay from time to time, but not the same thing as using them for childcare)

People of subsequent generations will be EXHAUSTED by the time they retire, as people were in years gone by. We have mostly raised own our children whilst working full time. We won’t retire until 68 or older. We won’t have long retirements in which to help out, and will probably be dead on our feet. We need something put in place to allow future generations to live their lives sensibly.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

@ladygindiva

Walk into any church or voluntary charity work place and I'll guarantee its the retired folk putting the hours in to help others. It's certainly true of my mum and her peers, they visit lonely isolated elderly people, hold a free church hall mother and baby group, volunteer at the local ( free, charity based) museum, the list could go on and on.

I'd love to do more volunteering. I use some of my holidays from work for a charity event I'm involved with, and do evening meetings and weekend events.

If (like years ago) my husband's salary enabled us to buy a house and run the household, I'd happily run a Brownie pack or volunteer at a local museum because I could do housework and cooking in the day. Or I could work and he could do that.

But the reason it's mainly retired people volunteering now is if you need two full-time salaries, housework and cooking gets pushed to evenings and weekends and you obviously can't do things that involve volunteering during the day.

[SpiderinaWingMirror]

I could not/would not/have not given up work to care for my grandchild. I am 54 with 13 years to go before retirement and still have a child as Secondary School.
I am helping to pay for dgrandaughters nursery fees though, which is the most I can do.
I never stayed at home when mine were small. Years later and a dodgy back makes it no more appealing!

[PollyAmour]

When my children were small, both sets of grandparents were working fulltime. I worked nights, my husband worked days and we had no need for paid childcare. Once they were at school, we utilised the breakfast and afterschool clubs.

My now adult children have yet to have children themselves, but DH and I are still working and likely to be doing so for at least another 5 years. Then I am blowing my pension pot on extravagant holidays, and I am not intending to spend my retirement sitting in soft play centres or doing the school run.

This attitude may change when I am presented with a squishy newborn grandbaby though 😂

[Dinoboymama]

I have never expected grandparents to help. Growing up our parents parents watched us so our parents could work.

My parents still work but if they didn't it would be their choice to help I would never ask I don't like asking even for a few hours every so often.
But I do feel a bit deflated that I myself cannot work due to childcare we have disabled children one requires 24/7 care.

I wish child care did not cost as much as it does then possibly I could have a career. I love my children and being a mum but wish I was something other than a mum to.

[Nottodaty]

We don’t live near any family, so we’ve used nursery, wrap around care and holiday clubs. My husband once worked out how much we paid out - he wishes he hadn’t!

Both my SIL are teachers I’ve never asked them to help in the holidays.

They did stay at both grandparents for a few days in the summer holidays - but only really between ages 5-8.

My Dad works shifts and when my daughter got chicken pox my Dad did come up to help cover a couple of days. My MIL also helped when my youngest had bad chest infection.

Both my parents still work full time so even if we lived close they’d not really be able to do much! I’d never expect it or feel entitled to help.