Working mothers can't have it all?

[Unicornhat]

I've never been ruthlessly ambitious but have always worked hard and been in pretty senior roles since my mid 20s. I'm currently in a snr manager role in a large company and earn a really good salary with perks etc. I feel like I kind of fell into this role - I've never consciously decided this is where I've wanted my career to be, I was approached about the job and here we are.
I now have an almost 2 year old and I hope to have another.
I'm finding the balance really difficult. I have so much less interest in my job and I'm fed up of it taking up so much headspace outside of the office, and I'm fed up of being the manager. It's a role where you're creative and always coming up with more and more new ideas. The workload is intense I always feel I'm letting someone down.
Realistically, for me to get a part time job, or even one that gives you an opportunity for a proper lunch break and to leave on time, would mean a massive pay cut. Also, if I step back for a while I'm concerned I wouldn't get back into a senior role and salary for a v long time.
Am I just crap at managing things, or is it possible to hold down a good career and have young children? Has anyone given up a job like this and then regretted it? Have you struggled financially?
My sister and in laws keep telling me to get an easier job but it's not that simple!

I missed a big part of my children’s childhood around the baby- toddler years purely because I was sold in to this idea of ‘having it all’.

If we weren't told and shown that we can juggle senior jobs and children, we'd all sit at home forever after having kids. Many of us would be deeply unhappy with that set up, poor, unfullfilled and heavily reliant on often not-so-nice or generous partners. I'd much rather be told that I can have it all and have a choice and a good shot at it, thanks.

If juggling things & your job at the time wasn't making you happy, you should have tried a different job if you needed the money or stayed with your children if you didn't perhaps. Maybe that was what you personally really needed and I don't negate listening to your own voice at all, quite the contrary. Having a choice when we have a family is important and sadly we often don't have it with rising costs of everything, jobs that require full time and more, inflexibility in the workplace etc.

Or is it a bitter hindsight that you didn't end up rich, a top boss or whatever it is you were hoping for despite all the hard work? I anticipate this would be to do with your career management if so, not so much with being a mother.

I actually think comments from working mothers in senior positions who now have older children are very helpful and I for once am grateful for your perspectives. I can completely see how the juggling act will become more complex with DC starting school and all the activities, but I am undeterred and with good planning I hope to continue making it work.

"I don’t think the ‘it’s easy to work full time with young kids and you’re just not trying hard enough’ narrative does anyone any favours here."

But, literally, noone is saying this. Only you paraphrasing.

You can't fit in everything you used to do pre-kids into your life post-kids. Something has to give, whether that be the amount of time spent socialising, exercising, chilling out, tidying/cleaning or indeed the number of hours you work.

No-one can have it all. It's a balance of what must be done, what is important to you and what you can actually manage.

Ok I paraphrased ‘stop whining about how difficult it is’

Was the exact quote. Why shouldn’t women speak out? Speak out if they find it easy and how they have made it easy but equally speak out of they are finding it hard.

Thanks @PurplePansy05 obviously I did try another job - I didn’t just give up. Then I retrained and I’m far happier.

Again, only one poster said that. You are trying to create a counter argument that simply doesn't exist. Why I have no idea, other than perhaps regret about your own choices.

@PurplePansy05 So you’re accusing me of being bitter and having bad career management? Because I found working with a 6 month old baby and a 18 month old full time with no help quite hard. And then I was diagnosed with breast cancer which really puts things in to perspective- but no it was my terrible career management that is to blame here. But thanks for your suggestions of looking for another job or changing careers I didn’t think of that!! How insightful.

Sometimes women really are each others worst enemies..

I am not even starting on this. You are a very bitter person an indeed, one of the most negative towards women on this thread.

I am sorry you've had such serious health issues and hope you've recovered well. Take care.

@Delatron i am sorry you had a hard time and no help. Stating that it's not impossible isn't looking down on women who don't do it. We all have our own lives, priorities and circumstances to deal with. All I am really disputing is (1) that it's impossible and (2) that choosing to do it (and not spend all your time with your kids) is bad mothering as is being suggested by many of the posters making the first point.

@PurplePansy05 I’ve been nothing but supportive of women on here - as I’ve said - I’ve done full time, part time, SAH. I think all those choices are valid. I’ve not criticised any of those.

I’ve said I found working full time hard with young children. You then, knowing nothing about me accused me of bad career management, maybe I should have tried another job (patronising) and then accused me of being bitter. Nice.

@Icanstillrecallourlastsummer Then maybe take umbrage with those that said not spending all your time with your children is bad mothering as that wasn’t me!

@Delatron oh come off it, you've said similar things. E.g. refernce to women who "do want to actually see their kids a bit when they’re young" - as though women who work don't see their kids.

@Icanstillrecallourlastsummer I never said that! Don’t misquote me please.

I worked loads when my kids were young.
For me not seeing them all week didn’t work but I’d never judge anyone else.

I don’t think the ‘it’s easy to work full time with young kids and you’re just not trying hard enough’ narrative does anyone any favours here.

No one's saying this. What (some of us) are saying is that it's important that women allow for some positivity around the idea of working with children to enable it to happen at all.

Absolutely no one is under any illusions about this. Unless you're obscenely rich you will know its really hard and draining to work and have children. This isn't up for debate.

It's the way people talk about it. Women would never have made the advances they have made in the past 50 years unless there were other women who felt it was important enough to talk positively about it, to set examples to inspire other women to do it, to encourage it.

You can't go through life pretending everything is rosy and everyone needs to talk about challenges and problems. But we wouldn't have got where we are with a mindset that says: "you can't have it all". Some people can have it all. That doesn't mean everyone has to and it certainly doesn't mean that people should be told they aren't trying hard enough. But it does mean we have to admit to the possibility and stop talking each other down.

I don't mind people not "having it all" if that's how they choose to structure their lives. But it profoundly upsets me that people tell other women they "can't have it all".

And I know I was particularly unlucky as I got home at 7.30. If I’d been home at 5 that would have been different.

All more more reason for women to retain financial independence eh?

I’ve just checked and 86% believe women can’t have it all. So sadly the ‘have it all’ brigade are in a minority. And I know it sounds like I’m being negative- it would be lovely if we could all have it all. But as most have said there is a compromise somewhere and that is different for everyone.

All the more reason for women to do their own PR and talk about the possibilities, rather than talking one another down in my view.

I don’t think sympathising and saying the juggle is hard - and something has to give - is talking one another down.

I’m all for positive role models but the home/childcare/family set ups many senior woman may have aren’t applicable across all women and all jobs.

Of course this needs to change. But just by saying ‘look how I did it’ doesn’t help many. Unless they are in the same job with the same childcare set up.

I'm not sure I 'have it all' but I definitely make it work. It involves a lot of help though. I work full time, relatively long hours as a partner in a law firm. I make it work by having an incredible nanny that turns up before I leave in the morning and is around until I get home. I spend 6.30am to 8am and 5.30 pm until 7pm with my 9 month old daughter and work again later in the evening if I have to. I work from home twice a week and try and spend time here and there playing wiht her and the nanny. I try and minimise all other obligations so non working time and weekends are solely focussed on my daughter and family (so don't do any cleaning in addition to the cleaner, shop online and have things delivered, order deliveroo / shove charlie binghams in the oven a lot). I know I'm very privileged and try not to feel guilty about not being the perfect mother or wife. I would find it very tough without the support but I'm very happy with how things are at the moment.

@EmptyHouse0822

Would it make a difference?

I mean I've said throughout the thread what I think it means just to be told I don't. Can't possibly.

I could list it and no doubt you'd come back and say well, you spend 3 hours to little with your kids so , no, you don't have it all.

@Delatron is even now trying to say I can't possibly have it all because my kids are pre teen/teen. Like I gave birth to teenagers. Like I didn't keep and progress my career when they were younger.

🤣

The op asked

hold down a good career and have young children?

That's what having it all means to them. The obvious answer then, is yes. Of course you can have it all.

But if you're really interested

I work full time (37.5 hours contracted but usually do 40 +) in a band 7 role (scn)

I worked 36 hours (contracted but usually did more) for a years after I had my kids, got promoted twice after I had them. I did shifts prior to band 7 and am back doing shifts again due needs of service. Still full time. Probably misses out on sleep during those younger years

Their dad and I shared all child care between us up till school age then my parents started helping out with some of the after school pick ups.

I have a good social life. Nights out, weekends away.

Plenty down time to waste chatting shit on mn

House is clean and tidy. I'm not the only 1 doing the cleaning and tidying. 4 of us live here. No cleaner.

Get plenty time with my kids who also have their own social lives and clubs, time with other family and friends.

Dh runs his own business. He does not currently have a good work life balance. But thats his issue.

Have I missed anything?

I have a great work life balance which is what having it all means to me.

I'm not sure why that's so contentious?

@Delatron

How many men think they can have it all?

@Topgub but when they were young (which the OP is taking about - full time job with young children) you worked night shifts to make it work. Which is very admirable but not many people’s idea of having it all.

If the question was ‘Is it easy to have a full time job with pre teens/teens’ there would be far more saying yes!! As it’s very different as they get older. And if my parents lived close to do school runs then life would have been a hell of a lot easier. Small things like that make a huge difference- having parents close/ having a DH with flexible hours.

@Topgub but when they were young (which the OP is taking about - full time job with young children) you worked night shifts to make it work. Which is very admirable but not many people’s idea of having it all.

When did you actually sleep if you were doing night shifts and then looking after your children in the day? Or was it when they were school age?

@Delatron

I didnt work exclusively nights.

I worked a 24/7 rota.

I still do (minus the nights, mostly)

I've also no idea why working nights would mean I didn't have it all?

And absolutely no one said if you have any help at all you cant have it all. That's ludicrous.

Does that mean if you use a nursery you don't have it all?

Or have a cleaner?

Utter rubbish.

Can working fathers have it all?

Do fathers even question this?

Why are mothers and fathers held to different standards?