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Original poster

Curtseying and bowing...

139 replies

FlowerArranger · 20/09/2022 16:25

Time to stop it, surely?

I could kind of understand it while the Queen was alive, as she was of a different era and used to it, probably considering it part and parcel of being the monarch.

But now? Have we not moved on? It just seems inappropriate and demeaning.

OP posts:
KnickerlessParsons · 21/09/2022 00:39

Just realised KC is King Charles and not Katherine Cambridge! (It's Catherine anyway).

Pallisers · 21/09/2022 00:43

agriefobserved · 21/09/2022 00:27

I guarantee if you met King Charles you would curtsey or at least bow to him.

You might curse yourself afterwards for not sticking to your guns, but you'd do it.

I guarantee I wouldn't.

But I am not from the UK. Maybe you have it bred into you to do it.

At one point curtseying and bowing was normal in society. Read books from that time. Or if you look at the Jane Austen films (meticulously researched) all the women curtsey and the men bow. Then life moved on to shaking hands or whatever and only the royal family were left with this anachronism.

What happens with the other European royal families. Do people really curtesy to the king and queen of Spain, Netherlands, Denmark?

BMW6 · 21/09/2022 01:08

But can't you see OP that you want a blanket ban on it because you don't think it's right is in itself dictatorial?

You are advocating taking away the individual right to choose!

There is free choice currently. You want to take that away. Can't you see your hypocrisy??

Pallisers · 21/09/2022 02:18

no-one is talking about a ban. For gods sake what would happen if there was a ban on curtseying and someone did one anyway - off with their head? to the tower? all this is esoteric nonsense anyway.

But if the royal family said that they will no longer curtsey and certainly no longer expect anyone to curtsey to them - well that might be a different thing. Some people might still like to curtsey/bow for all sorts of reasons and most will not. It will die out in 3 years.

ReneBumsWombats · 21/09/2022 06:31

You're not talking about a ban, you're talking about attempting to pressure people into doing what you think they should do rather than just choosing for themselves.

Some people like doing it, some don't. The Palace has been clear for years and years that it's completely optional and it isn't going to start pressuring people either way. It stays neutral and you choose freely, which is as it should be.

I expect it's the least of a royal's concerns while out and about.

PurBal · 21/09/2022 06:39

It’s a sign of respect. I genuflect at church for the same reason, I’m in a minority, but then it’s my choice. And I think choice is the key.

girlmom21 · 21/09/2022 06:48

Pinkbox · 20/09/2022 20:27

I remember reading that Meghan was surprised this happens behind closed doors, ie on entering a room she has to curtsy to Kate because of who the latter is married to.

When have you ever seen Meghan curtsying to Kate? That's not a thing.

HopingNotCoping · 21/09/2022 06:57

This is something I thought about when I watched the Crown. All the royals (except whoever's currently at the top) having to bow or curtsey, whereas I may be a nobody, but I've never bowed or curtseyed to anyone on my life and never will!

ShandaLear · 21/09/2022 07:00

The only way I’d ever curtesy or bow to anyone is if they were curtsying or bowing back. If anything, I’d prefer it to shaking hands, purely for hygiene reasons, but all this bowing to royals looks ridiculous and humiliating.

UghNoTime · 21/09/2022 07:22

So would anyone admit that if they were 'superior' (by birth) to someone else they would feel happy to have them bow or curtesy to them.

Being polite and shaking hands doesn't differentiate between people but bowing or curtsying is showing that one person is better and more superior to another.

If I were KC I would not want people to bow or curtsey to me. I wouldn't want people thinking I thought I was 'superior' to them. I would let the world know. It's 2022 there is no place for such old fashioned behaviour. Shaking hands is a normal and respectful way to greet people.

YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp · 21/09/2022 07:28

Considering it’s completely optional I don’t know why people are getting so het up about it!
If you’re so against it just don’t do it Ffs, clearly there are many who’re who don’t have a problem with it.

MyLovelyPen · 21/09/2022 07:29

You’re right OP, it looks terrible and perpetuates the myth that they’re superior to us minions, which suits them I guess. Once people spot the emperor’s new clothes it all unravels quite fast which could be awkward for Charlie!

ReneBumsWombats · 21/09/2022 07:38

UghNoTime · 21/09/2022 07:22

So would anyone admit that if they were 'superior' (by birth) to someone else they would feel happy to have them bow or curtesy to them.

Being polite and shaking hands doesn't differentiate between people but bowing or curtsying is showing that one person is better and more superior to another.

If I were KC I would not want people to bow or curtsey to me. I wouldn't want people thinking I thought I was 'superior' to them. I would let the world know. It's 2022 there is no place for such old fashioned behaviour. Shaking hands is a normal and respectful way to greet people.

Which is why that's absolutely fine!

I don't understand why you lot aren't happy just to let people make their own choice. (Well, I do, but I'll pretend that I don't.) The RF bow and curtsy sometimes. It's just a neck bow or a small dip, you don't have to lick the floor. You don't have to do it at all.

There's no obligation. Just do what feels right to you and afford the same courtesy to everyone else. Not everyone feels the way you do and if you're so fair and liberal, you should respect that.

ReneBumsWombats · 21/09/2022 07:45

The royals tend to do deeper curtseys as they are usually on camera while they do it and it's somewhat performative, but if you wish to do it, it's just a small dip. If you don't want to, don't.

Some people just like the idea of doing the traditional thing.

Sparklingbrook · 21/09/2022 07:51

agriefobserved · 21/09/2022 00:27

I guarantee if you met King Charles you would curtsey or at least bow to him.

You might curse yourself afterwards for not sticking to your guns, but you'd do it.

I also guarantee I wouldn’t. But struggle to think of a scenario where I’d meet any member of the RF to be honest.

stuntbubbles · 21/09/2022 07:53

agriefobserved · 21/09/2022 00:27

I guarantee if you met King Charles you would curtsey or at least bow to him.

You might curse yourself afterwards for not sticking to your guns, but you'd do it.

Nah, I met him when he was Prince Charles and it didn’t trigger some dormant curtsy/bow instinct. Why would his mother dying suddenly unleash my inner curtsy?

Nesbo · 21/09/2022 07:59

Bowing is hugely important in Japanese culture (just as one example). People bow to each other for various reasons (as a greeting, to show respect, to apologise), and the depth of the bow can indicate various levels of perceived status.

I think if you told them it was “demeaning” to bow to someone they would probably look at you with polite incomprehension. It is as much a part of their culture as Brits apologising every 5 minutes even when they’be done nothing wrong (if someone bumps into you and you automatically apologise to them have you just demeaned yourself or were you being what you consider polite?).

There is nothing inherently demeaning or subservient about it when it is your own choice, or if you are observing a cultural more that feels unremarkable to you.

Brefugee · 21/09/2022 08:01

It's not required (except for members of the RF meeting Princesses by birth, for eg, while walking around the palace.)

I have met sevaral and various members of the RF including the Queen. And have never bowed or curtsied.

gogohmm · 21/09/2022 08:06

When I met (then) Prince Charles he offered his hand to shake, No curtsying

Brefugee · 21/09/2022 08:09

I guarantee if you met King Charles you would curtsey or at least bow to him.
You might curse yourself afterwards for not sticking to your guns, but you'd do it.

also i can guarantee you i have never cursed myself for sticking to my guns and not curtseying. I did salute whichever of them we were on parade for when in the Army and being presented or whatever. But that's a military thing. Had neither of us been in uniform? nope, didn't do it.

I think the RF do it to each other because they are stifled by tradition and if they don't we oiks might question even more what they are for.

And there are absolutely protocols for when they encounter each other. AFAIK and IIRC (haha, love a good acronym) non royal-born have to curtsey/bow to roya-born when they encounter them for the first time in a day. I seem to remember reading that Katherine should curtsey to Andrew's daughters and thinking at the time "nope, would never do that"

MsFizz · 21/09/2022 08:27

I don't think it's a case of not letting others do what they want. I think it's a case of not understanding why others would want to do it in the first place. I for one can't understand why someone would voluntarily make a show of their inferiority (or vice versa be on the receiving end of a show of superiority).

MsFizz · 21/09/2022 08:39

In relation to bowing in other cultures - this is often more reciprocal though (a cultural thing more akin to handshaking) or even just a common courtesy (emphasis on common). I think the key difference that people on this thread are talking about is with the royals there is no element of reciprocity- the expectation is that the bowing/curtsying is a one-way rite bestowed on select members of the elite only. And it's these little shows of deference which serve to reinforce the (bogus) hierarchical nature of our society. This is what is baffling in this day and age.

CallMeLinda · 21/09/2022 08:48

It's not compulsory, and unlike other places we're not forced to show respect to members of the RF in this way. Personally I wouldn't bow or curtsey to any human being just because of their perceived social status, but people are free to think and act differently and do what they feel is right.

When it comes to politicians, it is more tricky, because of the traditions and the Monarchs technically being our head of state.

ReneBumsWombats · 21/09/2022 08:51

MsFizz · 21/09/2022 08:27

I don't think it's a case of not letting others do what they want. I think it's a case of not understanding why others would want to do it in the first place. I for one can't understand why someone would voluntarily make a show of their inferiority (or vice versa be on the receiving end of a show of superiority).

I think it's a case of not understanding why others would want to do it in the first place.

You don't have to understand why some people feel differently to you. You just have to respect that they do.

MsFizz · 21/09/2022 08:55

@ReneBumsWombats yes but we're allowed to think it's silly