Curtseying and bowing...

[FlowerArranger]

Time to stop it, surely?

I could kind of understand it while the Queen was alive, as she was of a different era and used to it, probably considering it part and parcel of being the monarch.

But now? Have we not moved on? It just seems inappropriate and demeaning.

No way its embarrassing.

Royals aren't better than everyone else.

I’d had dealings with various royals over the years and it definitely is optional
and has been for a long time. I love tradition and also feel as a PP said that you are acknowledging the office rather than the person (and have never felt in the least demeaned by curtsying). I curtsied to HM’s coffin on Friday night as it felt the right thing (for me) to do.
The awkward looking curtsies (I’m looking at you Liz T) are usually because the person is leaning forward/bowing at the same time as curtsying - you keep a vertical back and it’s a quick bend of the knees, unless you’re doing a full Princess Anne/Megan 😁

But worth noting that the Royals probably observe the custom more than anyone. They are the ones you can guarantee will be bowing or curtsying to anyone of a higher rank, William bowing to Camilla, Beatrice curtsying to Harry…

Presumably they don’t think that it is demeaning or embarrassing to do it. I guess it all depends on your perspective.

But at least in the military they have mostly earned that rank through hard graft (and worked up the ranks themselves).

Royals are literally just born (or married) into it. Their position is down to nothing except chance and circumstance. Why does that deserve such deference?

In a similar vein The reason I won't take the knee, it might mean different in the USA, but in the UK where 150 to many more years ago many of us were serfs talking the knee is a sign of fealty to your master which I won't do for anyone.

Where did curtsying come from? I get bowing but why did women not just bow? Who first did it. When did it become a thing? Why a curtesy not an arm wave?

off to google history of the curtesy!

@Againstmachine
i think it was originally called “taking a knee” which then morphed in the UK/Europe to taking the knee.

“…was originated by American football player Colin Kaepernick on September 1, 2016, in protest against the lack of attention given to the issues of racial inequality and police brutality in the United States.”

So actually it is - or was - a very antiestablishment protest. Of course, people can choose what they do and don’t feel comfortable with, but perhaps worth reminding people of the origins of it now and then. And in fact, I agree, I think it began and was a very powerful gesture in the States - but has now lost that power as a protest and is now very “safe” and establishment if you like.

I find the concept demeaning too. The fact people choose to do it doesn’t alter that for me, although I accept that’s not how they view it - it’s possible to demean yourself.

I understand the concept that it’s similar to the military and about the rank, not the person, but the big distinction with the military is that rank there is based on merit and experience, in theory at least. It’s based purely on birth or marriage with royalty, and in no other sphere of modern life do we accept that some people are inherently of a higher rank. I do not recognise the higher ‘rank’ of a royal.

@theworldhas

Whatever it isn't in America doesn't mean we have to carry it over in this country and actually not taking a knee is more anti establishment in this country.

And they should look up why we shouldn't take a knee in this country.

Well supposedly she was Queen by the grace of God

I think the stupidity is summed up in this line. Kings and Queens identify as being there by the grace of God. In their own view, or their religious leader. But who says that God agrees?

Self appointed by dint of birth. Ridiculous to bow to such people.

You know who was an ugly curtseyer?
Theresa May!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/09/theresa-may-curtsey-royals-prince-william

How far down is she going?!

So you KNOW people don't have to do it but you want to take away their choice to do it or not?

You are advocating for restrictions? Less choice, no freedom to choose?

Doesn't sound very liberal to me

I think taking the knee is along the same lines, although don't berate those who choose to. Each to their own and it's a long standing tradition that some people like to keep. No less pointless just because you don't like it.

I think it's a lovely bit of culture. Not sure why it needs to be done away with?

So awful. How can this be a thing still!

Well supposedly she was Queen by the grace of God

Many people in wars on either side of wars etc think it's grace of God, even Putin is supported by the Russian church.

She was queen as her uncle wanted a American divorcee.

King Charlie should abolish this out dated bollocks.

She's just getting her lunges in for the day. Next it's 20 squats

If you want to do it, you don't need to hit the floor. Visible knee bend is all you need.

I grew up in the USA, and studied ballet/dance since I was tiny. I remember a very serious lesson in the various types of curtsy in dance class when I was around 6 or 7. Obviously there weren't a lot of monarchs roaming around and no one curtsies to the President, but we learned it because a mutual or tag-team bow and curtsy are common elements in a lot of traditional dances, a formal mark of respect and thanks (or request and acceptance - "may I have this dance?") from one partner to another.

As it's already optional, I'm not sure how bowing/curtsying to the monarch could be phased out completely - it seems a bit extreme to actually abolish the practice? Perhaps Charles should just start bowing back. I imagine the PM's job is at least as hard as the King's!👑

I was presented to the now-King at a work thing, and hadn’t intended to bow or curtsey, but when it came to it, I just did it! He really couldn’t have cared less, and was just really interested in our project.

Japanese people bow to everyone as a mark of respect

As pp have said it's a personal choice. I wouldn't agree with it being banned! When you meet the Royals it's made clear that you don't have to bow or curtesy if you don't want to.

I quite like it - and was happy to curtesy when I met Princess Anne.

I would curtsey if I met one of the Royal Family. I know it's not required, but it would be my choice. I agree with the pp who says it doesn't sound very liberal to advocate restrictions - just let people choose.

I don't think anyone ever really 'means' it when they curtsey these days - it's more of a game, or like taking part in a play. It's fun to go along with it because it kind of unites everyone who's taking part, like kids in a school yard threshing out who's going to go where and say what during their game and then enjoying playing their part. It's just a show.