How to speak to teenager about societies view on women having sex with multiple people?

[disin]

I slept with a lot of men - a-lot - from the age of 16 - 25. I really thought that by sleeping with them it would turn into love or a relationship. I slept with so many men that my nickname was 'slutty disin'. It made me feel like shit and I only slept with most of these men because I was desperate for love.

Twenty years on and with a different head on my shoulders I can look back and see how sad that was. Growing up though or as a teen nobody taught me these 'societal rules' that sex doesn't equal love and that men can sleep with however many women they like but women are judged for doing the same thing.

I have a teen girl of my own now and I am eager to do things differently. However, I struggle with how to explain these 'societal rules' in a balanced manner. For instance, women should absolutely be entitled to sleep with who they want, however many people that may be - there should be no shame, however, there is and that is just how society sadly is. How do I teach her that sex isn't shameful, one night stands aren't shameful, sleeping with multiple men isn't shameful yet still encourage her to only sleep with men/women who respect, care and love her.

I don't know if I'm getting my point across. In an ideal world I would prefer my daughter not to sleep with hundreds of men like I did, however, she is entitled to do so and she should be entitled to do so without judgement. However, I think a lot of the time it leaves women feeling like shit. I can't count the amount of times that I have had sex with someone and never hear from them again.

How do I tell a teen that although sleeping with someone might feel nice at the time, it can feel pretty shit the next day when they ignore you? How do I teach her that sex does not equal love and that sex is best with someone that cares about you?

I'm not sure if I'm overthinking this as my sexual history has defined my life in certain ways, how I view myself, how I view men, relationships, sex. I want her to have someone to guide her with this as it's something I never had.

Any advice? AIBU to be thinking so deeply about this?

@fUNNYfACE36

But why does it matter if the man respects a woman and wants to marry or date her?

You don't seem to understand that women can also have casual relationships and not want their sexual partner as a date or take them home to meet the parents

Have you travelled here from the 1950s ?

Oh wow, I think some posters here are severely sexually repressed.

It's the 'lie back and think of England' brigade. People who assume sex is unpleasant for women so is something that should be used as a bargaining chip to get a ring on their finger.

Men don't sit around stewing over whether women who fucked them respected them or not.

I've certainly never even thought about whether I respected men who had casual sex.

I was always quite open about my sex life/ history and never once had a man say anything negative.

If anything, from sexual conversations I've had men respect women who know what they want and do what they want. Their issue tends to be with the manipulative game players who use sex as a 'prize' men basically have to pay for via multiple dates etc. There's another word for sex in exchange for cash...

I've give this topic a lot of thought recently as I've read Louise Perry's book and she makes a lot of interesting well thought out points. It's made me think a lot about my previous stance and re-examine my actions and feelings. But, having given it a lot of thought, I don't agree with all of her conclusions and I know she would describe me as 'an outlier' which may be true. On the other hand, as an older adult, I've spent a lot of time deconstructing my, frankly misogynist, feeling that 'I'm not like other girls' so concluding that I'm an outlier on this issue also feels dismissive and wrong.

When I was younger, before I met my ex-husband (a man I had sex with on our first date), I had plenty of sex with plenty of partners. Some in loving relationships, some in relationships that never became serious, many one night stands, and a number of friends with benefits situations, though we didn't have that phrase back then. And honestly, it was glorious, a part of my life that I'd never take back. I knew exactly what I was doing, I was making choices that allowed me to experience my life as I wanted to. Did some men judge me negatively for that, undoubtedly. But if any man judged me negatively for behaviour that they also engaged in, then I judged them harder for being sexist hypocrites. I would never, ever have wanted to be with any man so sexist. To be quite honest though, my experience was that far more men I had sex with wanted a continuing relationship with me than not. I very regularly found myself turning down future dates. I also left a number of relationships that I had thought were promising because I felt we had no real sexual chemistry.

And while I agree that sex as an expression of love is truly amazing, to be quite honest, the actual best sex, for the sake of sex, I ever had was with a FWB. Our sexual chemistry was off the charts, the kind of sex we had just couldn't have been had in a relationship. The fact that we didn't love each other and our sex was about nothing more than just giving and receiving pleasure in a really quite competitive way for the sake of pleasure just elevated that pleasure. I'm not saying it was better than great, loving, also extremely pleasurable sex that provides amazing connection and orgasms. But it was a different, truly excellent experience and I'm very, very, very glad that I got to experience both of those things.

There is no right or wrong here. Women (and men) who want to keep sex to something only experienced in already loving relationships are perfectly valid for feeling that way. And people who only enjoy sex for it's physical pleasure are also valid. As are the majority of people who fall somewhere in between those two points. What matters is being honest, with yourself and your partner about what you want from sex. And, especially for women, being aware that men are much, much stronger than us, and are more prone to violence and making sure to take every precaution possible to stay safe.

Interestingly this type of conversation first came up with my daughter when she was much younger,when she asked about the diamonds line in that maya angelou poem 'I rise' - now I think she gets lots of her influence about this stuff from tiktok etc!

@Athenajm80

The line further up the thread about "treasures" 🤢

I chose that word as the thread was about discussing themes with a young girl was it not? Fair enough if you do not like it, I doubt I would use it in your case anyway.

We're women,not dainty Disney princesses waiting

You aint kidding, more like Ursula out the little mermaid.

Fuck that, respect me, don't respect me. I don't really care.

You are essentially arguing that it is not desirable to expect men to respect women in society. I think that is a sad attitude.

society’s views barely need to enter into the discussion. The focus can be on her emotional and physical health. Talk to her about how sex can be casual and that works for some people, but that for many others it comes complicated feelings that you may not expect. Make sure to emphasize that what other people think about us doesn’t matter. Staying safe physically in all ways does matter. Making sure we are truly comfortable with our own choices does matter. As her mother you wish you could protect her from heartbreak, but you know that you can’t. You can only tell her about your own experiences so maybe that can help guide her a bit.

These are excellent points and much better than the bellowing from others about "getting fucked and not caring if the man respects them or not".

The only thing I would add is that there is a real risk of pregnancy even if people are careful. No contraception is 100% effective and even layered conteraception can fail.

The people who portray sex with strangers are being no more consequential than having a cup of tea with someone are no doubt the same people who then insist than abortion is something to do with healthcare as opposed to a means to escape responsibility when they inevitably get caught out.

Yes always risk involved and people getting hurt not just women

I think the message to your daughter should be "only have the sex that you really want" and as safely as possible!

I don't think you should steer her towards a view that "casual sex is wrong" but rather to focus on the reason for having sex. Desire, pleasure, curiosity, love, attraction are all good reasons whether sex occurs casually or in a long-standing relationship. Doing it to please someone else, as a bargaining chip, to try and "buy" affection that isn't there, or to validate your attractiveness when you have low self esteem are not good reasons.

I’m watching Euphoria at the moment thinking this is harsh but a lot more educational than Dawsons Creek for how the real world works re: sex 😫

Respect from a man who judges women for having sex isn't respect worth having, imo. Why the hell would any woman want to impress/be "respected" by a sexist? Especially when that alleged respect is dependent on her continued adherence to outdated, misogynist nonsense. Having sex does not lessen a person.

If you believe that people are misunderstanding you, perhaps consider expressing yourself with original thought, rather than resorting to cliché.
Its also not a sign if superior intellectual to insult a person's intelligence as a lazy response to their challenge.
@MrsTerryPratchett makes valid points that you ignore, instead attempting to belittle her. Which is of course less intellectually taxing for you than actually responding with counter argument.

I'm personally happy with the multitudes of men I've chosen to have ( emotionless ) sex with. It's society's attitudes that need to change.
' slut shaming ' is abject misogyny meant to keep women in their place

Misogyny is alive and well 🙄

How do you know what "we are all thinking"?

Thanks @5128gap I wasn't going to dignify the misogynist (and seemingly xenophobe with her comments about English) with a response but I appreciate the response from you.

When hatred drips of everyone word of @newsaint posts there really is no point I suppose. The pursed-lipped, judgemental, ugly attitude is one I think we all recognise.

I think at your DH's age the most important thing is the issue of consent and understanding whether you really want to do something, and how to feel strong and confident enough to have firm boundaries and not be pushed into doing things.

It's hard to understand that when you're 16 and you think someone is really cool or popular or attractive and they try and make you feel small or uncool or like you won't have their approval if you won't have sex with them.

From what I remember from high school, this was the issue that led girls around me to have unhappy, regretful experiences they felt bad about later.

I think you might be projecting your past onto her. Just teach her to love and respect herself and then that's your job done - its not about sex - for you sex became a way of filling a void of love in your life. It sounds like you love and care for her very much so I don't think she'll take the same path as you. give yourself a hug and let go of your past - it got you to where you are today but you don't need it anymore.

I think you are overthinking it OP. Of course you talk to your kids about this type of thing, but when the discussion comes up, say your opinions and go from there. You seem to think that if you just choose the right thing to say, your dd will never make mistakes and never experience heartbreak. But that's all a part of life.

Also love and sex are really complicated. I've had sex with people I maybe shouldn't have. But at the time I wanted to for whatever reason. Then later I regretted it because the person was a jerk. Now, much later, I no longer regret it because it's all part of the adventure of my life. Maybe in the future I'll regret it again. Which opinion is right? How "should" I have acted? There's no one answer.

I think a lot of us were abused and exploited back in the 90s (i can only speak for this era).
Forgive teenage you. Times have thankfully changed somewhat.
Sending love and healing.

Young girls are very capable of understanding complex issues and the unequal judgements women have to deal with on a daily basis.

You should have an open and ongoing conversation about these topics as she grows up.

I wnder what her views are already on the topic.

How do I teach her that sex isn't shameful, one night stands aren't shameful, sleeping with multiple men isn't shameful yet still encourage her to only sleep with men/women who respect, care and love her.

How do I tell a teen that although sleeping with someone might feel nice at the time, it can feel pretty shit the next day when they ignore you? How do I teach her that sex does not equal love and that sex is best with someone that cares about you?

Tell her this. You've explained yourself well and she will understand

I think you might be mixing up societal rules and understanding about emotional intimacy. There isn't one set of societal rules incidentally, cultures and subcultures have their own. Different social groups have their own. I think you are talking about understanding emotional intimacy. I am teaching dc about love and respect and emotional intimacy and relationships and when they are older I will talk about the difference between casual sex and sex within a loving relationship where there is care and connection I don't think having casual sex is wrong or bad at all, but I think what I will teach is the difference between that and relationship sex. Humans are hard wired to need love and connection and it is that that brings happiness, I think. But many of us were brought up without emotional intimacy and that is why there are so many problems out there. I was a commitment phobe for years until I finally got it. DC are too young to be talking about sex much but they do talk about relationships and comment that a lot of media photos objectify women, interestingly.

I will also talk about the other issues around sex, that there is choice but also that sometimes people do things they don't want to do and the reasons for that, going back to their own childhood experiences, often, and about how choices can become abusive and about women and men not being objectified and the effect of porn and all that.

It is outrageous you were called slutty.