You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

*that speaks to the rigidity of that particular class of the uk class system… not the system in general.

Carole Middleton. Born into a working class family. Are you seriously trying to claim that she is still working class?

@Idontcareboutthestateofmyhair exactly people are being deliberately obtuse here.

I work with a surgeon his sister doesn't work and his brother fixes vending machines. So which sibling is MC out of the 3??? They were all raised in the same household.

I think people forget you can't take everything for gospel on MN and perhaps a lot of people "think" they are MC but are they really??

Oh @Eastangular2000 you didn't need to write that with so much relish! I am indeed the first person in my family to go to uni (and study sociology of all things). My background is very much working class. But it would be ridiculous for me to claim I am WC now. I could. But that would be doing a disservice to those who are WC and don't have the same privileges that I have now.
I'd really like to understand what your definition of class is and how social mobility occurs.

@Paigeycakey social cultural and economic capital, so money (economic) is just one factor.
I guess this comes down to whether you want to use official definitions of class / social mobility, or your own beliefs.

@fiftytontheresa well this is a public forum and I have given you my opinion. Now why don't you climb down from your high horse instead of shouting the bloody loudest and implying I am wrong. YET you still have not explained clearly what your defination of class is?

Ignorance is bliss! I've asked you a few times and you haven't managed to give an answer...

He may have an understanding of what it will be like due to his back ground but he’s, definitely not working class in a salary like that. I’d love to know how he will struggle 😂

There was no relish. But as you have seen, whilst you may consider yourself to be MC many others will not ‘read’ you that way.

As I said earlier in the thread social mobility happens inter generationally. So you are WC but your children may be MC depending on the life they grow up in.

She might well be furious but it doesn’t change the fact that she will have remained WC in the eyes of many

@Paigeycakey
Your social class is still based around your profession. That's because of the opportunities that come with the kind of profession / job that you do.
Someone who picks orders in the Amazon warehouse has very different social economic and cultural opportunities to a doctor.
It's not just about money.
And it's not saying WC bad / MC good.
And it's not based on your parents class (though obviously there is no doubt that coming from a privileged background is huge capital in itself).

Not sure if I can explain it any better than that. And I think we are still taking about two very different ideas of class. But Togo back to the person in the OP, a consultant who earns consultants wages and who has the lifestyle that goes with the job and salary is not working class anymore.

@Eastangular2000 you are taking about stereotypes and social assumptions. I am not.

Social mobility can be intragenerational 🙄 this is getting tiresome. No idea what country you live in but it certainly isn’t modern Britain.

Are you a dear cousin of Jacob Rees Mogg par chance? It would certainly make sense considering your “know your place” politics and Victorian outlook on the class system!

Absolutely. Lots of money and living a very MC lifestyle but remains WC. Hence all the ‘doors to manual’ jokes. Like I said class is significantly defined by how others view you rather than how you view yourself.

He is working class. His children are middle class.

I don’t think anyone would consider my mum working class. I think most people would think that was laughable… as is your insane suggestion that you can’t move class. It defies basic logic!

And? I have said time and again I am not talking about the very narrow academic definition of class. If you are then good for you but we are having different discussions.

My dad was a metal worker my mum worked in checkout. I went to Uni etc married into a traditionally MC family.

we have kids in private school - assets etc and financially I would say MC BUT my values are very different at times from my DH and in-laws.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Carole Middleton is working class! Absolutely laughable!

Laugh all you like, but those comments were made because whether you like it or not people make judgements. Those same people would be the ones judging your Mother. I am not saying it is right I am saying it is reality. It is one of the contributing factors to inequality in this country, to pretend it doesn’t exist is foolish.

He's either middle class or professional class. Education is one of the things that can change your class. My parents were both born working class. Thanks to their degrees and professions, they became middle class.

Surely then it relies on somebody a) telling the truth when asked about their background and b) being asked in the first place.

Whilst I know the man he is now relatively well I’ve no idea, for example, what sort of background my neighbour comes from, or what his parents did for a living because I’ve never asked. Likewise, he’s never asked me. If he told me his parents were primary school teachers, I’d believe him. If he told me they were factory workers, I’d believe him. If he told me one was an actuary and the other a nuclear scientist, I’d believe him.

If your entire opinion of somebody’s class can change depending on what they choose to tell you rather than how they actually appear, it’s entirely pointless.

He is working class because of his upbringing.

Nah I have to stop you right there. Class stems back from your parents and grandparents. Houses are passed down, inheritance, upbringing and what circles you mix in it's all elements of class. Don't you read the threads where people are saying Grandparents are coughing up school fees for their GRANDKIDS! (MC people)

These aren't the only things buy it's definitely to do with background. A consultant is the highest doctor. There's stages after that 5 years of med school and then they will work as an F1, SHO and so on..... how can you just jump straight to consultant? I agree its a good wage but its neither here or there it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't give you a free pass to being MC.

What MC people have is encouragement and support also that instill education onto their kids because its what they was taught also...hence doctors coming from doctors families.

Most MC people are well spoken also! I've met many Jack the lads doctors and these were fab don't get me wrong! But definitely not MC there's a lot of assumptions here.

A couple of ridiculous comments to not a class make.

Carole Middleton is the grandmother to the future king. She is at very least MC and may be the exception to the upper class rule when her grandson takes the thrown.

The few people who may perceive CM as WC, are quite frankly idiots!

The point is that there is a lot you can’t change, often because you don’t know the difference. It’s the being in the ‘don’t know what you don’t know’ category. There are so many subtle markers and differences that most of the time people don’t even know what they are revealing about themselves. Of course anyone can pretend to be anything but I am assuming we aren’t talking about deliberate fraud.

How many people, whose class you seemingly confidently establish to yourself through “tells”, do you then actually ask for further information about to find out if you were correct?