You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

Absolutely. That was my point. I agree. I think you possibly misunderstood my post. I was responding to another post that accused the OP of snobbery.
I completely agree with your post. I actually think it's a bit insulting to minimum wage workers etc when middle class professionals insist they're working class

Sorry @WanderingFruitWonderer we do indeed agree! I meant to tag @Idontcareboutthestateofmyhair in my post

@fiftytontheresa no worries! Easily done

This is an interesting article -

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/18/why-professional-middle-class-brits-insist-working-class

This is the research that's discussed in the episode of Thinking Allowed earlier in the thread.

I need to show it to DH who has at no point in his life been MC but identifies as such as he works for a living (as an IT consultant) and worked in a factory for three months after he left university

Ah, sorry, I think I missed that bit of the thread. I'll read through it later

Your friend is quite right he's working class.

Tbh you can see class and when you see it you definitely won't be confused.

You could be a bin man and have class also. It's your background and generation wealth that's linked to class not the money per say....

@Paigeycakey but no it's really not. Why do you think it is?

Disagree. You are talking about wealth not class. Is Wayne Rooney MC? Is Colleen?

Would you and I be MC if we won the lotto tomorrow? All the chanel handbags in the world wouldn't change our class overnight 🙄

I have explained in my other post see below.

Do you want to explain to me why you think all surgeons are MC or doctors? I work with surgeons and I can tell you straight away that it doesn't make you MC just because you have gone to med school.... MC is your family background also.

@Paigeycakey absolutely no one is saying it's just about money. Read / listen to some of the articles linked to in this thread.

Why would @Paigeycakey need to read an article. She has stated quite clearly that she can identify class without needing a specific academic definition, much like most of the population. What the academic definitions have done is seemingly convince some people that you can earn or educate yourself out of your class, they then discover in the real world this isn’t the case. Not saying that that is right but it is reality.

You are aware that you tagged MY post aren't you? Tbh I don't know what exactly you are asking me.

I know what class is. So I shall not be reading any articles thanks. There's a difference between a Doctor who has parents who were doctors and other family members that are nurses, teachers or a physiotherapist (this is partly how class is formed).

You then can just get an ordinary person that has worked hard and become a Doctor..... but parents and other family members have non degree jobs. I think in the gentlest way YOU don't know what class is.

Tbh I grew up on a council estate I defo know class when I see it! I don't need any article to clarify for me.... like I said I work with surgeons and they are NOT all MC.

@Eastangular2000 but you can "educate yourself out of your class"...

@Paigeycakey in the gentlest way back at you, I do understand how the class system works due to having a degree in sociology.
I'm not clear what you are basing your definitions on, but you're giving the impression that it's based on stereotypes. That's not really helpful.

@Relocatiorelocation love love love your post. Good for you that you have stayed grounded.

I think some still don't understand your post. Money can't buy class it's as simple as that.

Nope. I'm not just talking about wealth.

@fiftytontheresa so explain please what is your defination of class??

To list your qualification or state is irrelevant.

In the gentlest possible way @fiftytontheresa you have a very narrow academically constructed understanding of class, dare I say probably because you studied sociology. In fact I would hazard a guess that you may have been the first in your family to attend university and are therefore seemingly quite invested in the idea you can educate yourself out of your class.

You can absolutely earn and educate yourself out of your class. It’s utter piffle to suggest otherwise.

I’ve never heard such “know your place” nonsense in all my life! It is quite frankly, grossly offensive!

@AviatorMama so why are people like Katie price not MC if you can buy class? Or is the road she lives on not quite posh enough?

But you know what you are saying isn’t true. Your other thread makes it very clear that you are very aware of the social rules and expectations that different classes have that can’t be bought or accessed through formal education.

Of course what I’m saying is true! Working class to middle class movement is absolutely possible. The only class that is not possible to move to is upper class - and that is a UK specific restriction.

It would appear that many women on mumsnet are living in Victorian Britain 🙄

I wasn’t aware Katie price had educated herself or had a particularly skilled job to claim moving to MC. She may have earned a lot of money but that’s it.

Totally agree Paigeycakey! Others on here are completely missing the point.. I always say about footballers etc, lottery winners.. what they're upper class now.. oh no they're not!! It's the same as all the upper class living in their big castles as poor as a church mouse.. so they're working class now? I made a point earlier about saying I grew up WC but my parents were neither poor nor rich. My WC status is because I lived in a council house and my dad was a manual worker. That we had a good life and wanted for nothing makes no difference.. we were working class. It's an insult to say doctors etc can't be WC.

Upper class is an unobtainable class. That speaks to the rigidity of the uk class system. That is solely reserved for aristocracy/political families etc.

A lotto winner wouldn’t become MC overnight no. But they may become MC overtime depending on how they develop their social circles etc.

To say that people are stuck in the class they’re born into is ridiculous. My mum was born in a council house in Liverpool. Hard childhood with very little. Got herself educated, got a skills job and worked her way up the ranks. By the time I was born, her and my father were loving a very middle class existence; financially, socially, geographically, etc. My mum would be utterly furious at the assertion that she hasn’t been able to move class.