You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

He is working class, his children will be middle class.

I disagree, I think class and wealth are entirely different things..

Maybe we should replace working class with lower earners or something then there would be no confusion. The guy was being a cock though !

The way class was defined by sociology was purely based on your parents job. No idea what the definition is now!

DH and I grew up on council estates. We both went to uni, own a fuck off house, have a huge joint income and our kids have what they want within reason.
We are definitely still working class. The way we vote / our values and beliefs / the way we speak. Just because we're educated and have a few quid, you'd never catch me wearing Hunter wellies walking a labrador. I'm more likely to be smoking a fag outside Weatherspoons on a Saturday night.

There will be people who claim to be middle class but are struggling .

He's WC living a MC lifestyle. His kids will be MC.

He's also a dickhead, by the sound of it.

I grew up in similar circumstances, as did DH for some people there's a price in being seen as working class. I wouldn't say someone who is now a surgeon, a very professional career with a high level of education, is still working class. There will definitely be people here who say he is though, but to me that indicates social mobility isn't possible, which I don't believe.

Isn’t ‘working class’ to do with employment? A surgeon isn’t a working class job so he has a working class background but isn’t working class now.

“It was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle.”

More accurate to say that lower income families will struggle. He couldn’t have truthfully included himself in that group in some weird attempt at reverse snobbery.

Iiiinteresting - I thought that class was to do with level of education, type of career and lifestyle.

There was a LOT of googling during this conversation and working class is defined by pretty much all dictionaries as being employed in low-paid, unskilled or manual labour. I suppose you can argue that surgery is manual labour, but it's definitely not low-paid or unskilled.

Working class ackground, but now a middle class lifestyle.

Some people see "middle class" as an insult though.

Why do you feel the need to dictate to him how he identifies himself?

He sounds like an idiot regardless. But it would be more correct to suggest ‘low income’ or ‘low earner’ as class is such a personal notion

He’s working class. Class isn’t about wealth, it’s about culture and background. His kids will be middle class but he will always be working class.

it doesn’t matter how rich you are, if you grew up a peasant your betters will smell it on you. they might be nice to you, they might even learn to respect you, but you’ll never be one of them.

I'm on the fence as I was raised on a council estate too. My working class roots are bemused by my rugby/ ballet lessons/ drama classes darling children who don't really understand hardship and their frequent demands for houmous. You can be working class even if you've "done well for yourself".

It probably depends on the person, but from what you're describing he sounds firmly middle class.

I grew up in a council flat in a one parent family on benefits. Went to university, work in a professional role. I would consider myself middle class and my children definitely are.

Interestingly I recently applied for a job which asked about education, parents' jobs etc (I imagine it is to ensure that they are attracting applicants from all backgrounds). It felt a bit strange to write it down as 30 years later it doesn't really have an impact.

This.
he is WC by background and social identity but he's definitely not one of the WC now.

Maybe we should let people self ID as whatever class they THINK they are? I personally was assigned middle class at birth, but due to living in a wealthy area I now self ID as upper class. My pronouns are Lady/Duchess 🙃

This.

Those twats you see winning millions on the lottery and pissing it all away in a few years on fluorescent yellow supercars, zebra skin sofas and gaudy Rolex watches have zero class.

I'm from the working class.
Thanks to DH's income which I support through childcare, I now live a middle class life.

I struggle with how to define myself SO MUCH. My thoughts, habits and attitudes are WC, literally the only thing that has changed about me are my spending habits. I AM working class, but I LIVE a middle class life. It is confusing and I genuinely don't know what the answer is.

DS will be and is MC though. And my pals know the best way to get a rise out of me is to call me MC. Aarrgh. It's so weird, you've hit a nerve OP.

Dr Dude was a right dick though.

He’s marking himself out as of a lower class by boasting constantly about his salary, though. Higher classes don’t talk about wealth although they often have lots of it (either cash or asset rich).

If people stopped using the term "working class" and were more specific about what they meant, e.g. "low earners", we would all be a lot better off. Ditch the lazy stereotypes!

That's all very well, but what would half of MN have left to talk about then?

There's a segue in the OP between [whatever]-class families and [whatever]-class individuals. Usual traditional British norms around social class would consider his a middle-class family, but would also usually consider him a working-class individual. You're denying him a part of his identity within the (weird) system we have, if you insist to him that he personally as an individual is middle class. It's a refusal to accept that he belongs to the group he came from and identifies with, which is a bit rude. He might also see it as dismissive of his achievements in life, as it's undoubtedly more difficult to reach the position he has from the background he's from. He does need to accept that his family will be seen as middle class by most, though. I come from a family like his (as one of the children) and am, I believe, perceived as broadly middle class despite now living on benefits. It's a quirk of social mobility existing in a society which didn't used to have it.