You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

YABU. He is working class. His children will be middle class. Income and class are not the same thing. I know many wealthy working class people and many middle class families who struggle financially.

I've got 2 labs but sadly no Hunters wellies too expensive.

I agree. I identify as landed gentry. Surely everyone should accept this and I should be offered land to match my identity?

I know, its mumsnet favourite topic. Oh and how much do you earn 🤣

Yes

I don't think he can reasonably say he is in a working class family. Maybe he is working class, but his children aren't and his wife may well not be depending on her background.

He might have working class roots but in the context of your conversation he is definitely not working class. I would say he has zero class by the sound of it.

This. It is lower income families that will struggle. But I’m not sure what lower income
means?

Our household income is just over £45k for two adults and two DCs and we are cutting back having to look for savings in everything.

It’s very interesting.

DH is the son of two teachers both of whom went to university. He is now a solicitor earning well over £100k I think he’s middle class. He insists he’s working class.

I am also a lawyer in a role that most would regard as something only public school pupils do. I grew up on a council estate. My dad worked in a warehouse yard. My mum was a part time cleaner. I was the first in my family to go to university. Because of my job and my income and my home, I’d say I’m middle class but clearly my background is working class

The DC are without a doubt middle class. Children of parents in professional roles, independent school, house worth a lot of money etc.

I would say he's middle class - based on job, income, education, home ownership etc.

Both my parents grew up working class - their fathers worked in factories, mothers a cleaner/ in service at one point. But both managed to go to university, own their own properties and consider themselves middle class. By extension that makes me middle class too. Saying that I've never met anyone who wears hunter wellies or has Labradors and I'm frequently in Weatherspoons if that's a measure of anything

Since the majority of young people are now university educated and some traditional blue collar jobs have high earnings (eg. train drivers, offshore rig workers) then modern thinking is that class is based less on what you do during the week, but what you do at the weekend ie. how and where you spend your money.

This is a quick "fun" questionnaire to identify your class:
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/working-middle-upper-class-quiz-14599753
12 questions, each with 4 responses scoring 1-4 points. Scoring 24 or less means you are Working Class and 25-39 Middle Class.
Note that it is nearly 5 years old factor that in with the financial questions.

People here often seem to say they're WC because they didn't go to private school, don't live in a detached home in Surrey or own a pair of hunter wellies, but to me that stereotype is really more upper middle class? I see DH as the epitome of normal/average middle class: one parent a teacher, other working a white collar job for the council, went to a state school but had parents who would supply his learning at home, expected to go to uni but not necessarily Oxbridge, doesn't have a trust fund but knows that his parents will support him financially if he ever found himself down on his luck, etc.

My mum comes from a very WC family but my cousins probably wouldn't stop laughing if I described myself as WC: I'm a university lecturer who owns her home outright while they mostly work zero hour contract jobs in the care sector (or are on benefits) and live in council houses. I go skiing in the Alps while they go to partying on the Spanish costas. I love my cousins but our lives are very very different.

I disagree @ComtesseDeSpair - those people on that estate were me, and they were also the people I worked with every day (when I worked full time). So I may live in my nice little commuter belt semi, but I am acutely aware of what's going on in the council estate behind my house. It's one of the reasons I volunteer at my DD's school with reading, and man their little school food bank once a week.

Don't you have to have a 'blue collar' job to be working class? When this man wear a blue shirt it has no collar! When not in surgery I assume he would wear a white shirt.

I think class and wealth are different, but for him to say 'we're working class and we'll be fine' is stupid because in that context it's clearly within a financial context. (Ie. no one said 'people who wear red corduroy trousers will struggle less')

100% agree!!!

I studied sociology more than twenty years ago and even then class was being redefined in terms of patterns of consumption - if you own a house, a car, can afford private education and healthcare then you are definitely middle class. You might have grown up in a working class family, but you've experienced social mobility and you've moved into the middle classes. Being able to afford NCT classes is itself a mark of the middle classes as far as I'm concerned.

I think he’s now middle class- you can move class. I grew up middle class and am probably more working class now

Lol. This is me too. The degree, the professional job, 4 bed 'period property', comfortable income..but I'll never be anything but WC. Its there in my values, interests, social circle and accent.
People struggle to believe that not everyone wants to shake off the people and way of life they grew up with as soon as they get a third tier education, and that joining the MC isn't everyone's dream.
Class isn't about education or income, its lifestyle and culture, and if you want to stick with ithe one you were raised in, who should tell you otherwise?

I have a family member who is Cambridge educated and now in a very senior position. Lives in a large detached house, several expensive pedigree (not rescued!) dogs.

Her grandparents owned and ran their own business, a business with staff (so more than self employed!). They had a detached house and were well-to-do.

Father and mother well educated, one own business and one a lawyer.

She is in (far) left wing circles and tweets perpetually claiming to be one of the "oppressed working classes" and how the cost of living crisis is "affecting working class people like me"

Very tempted to tweet to her 50k followers the truth, but don't think she would be amused....she doesn't speak to us as we are far too middle class for her, the sad truth is that I am way more entitled to call myself "working class" than she is, and I consider myself middle class.

I'm on benefits caring for my disabled son. My daughter does horse riding and ballet. She too has no use of Great hardship but she is firmly working class! Her mum is on benefits ffs 😂

He is working class, his children will be middle class.

He is working class. His children will be working class. His grandchildren may be middle class, depending on who his children marry

Sounds like Corbin tbh

He had a point though. Working class doesn't mean poor. NDN is a plumber, his wife a dinner lady, both definitely working class, but also far wealthier than us, when we'd probably count as middle class. They bought their house 30 years ago for tuppence, have had a couple of inheritances, and plumbers earn well round here.

I meant Corbyn, my stupid phone autocorrected