You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

They're loathsome, aren't they? I prefer rich bastards who aren't ashamed of it. Me too

My Dad has almost exactly the same background, mum a cleaner Dad a binman, council flat, then med school and career as doctor. Never heard him say he was working class or deny he was now middle class, he would think making a point of either would be ridiculous.

I don’t think it is your role to ascribe him to a class. It would have been better to talk about low income families in relation to financial pressures. I grew up in a WC family, the BBC quiz now places me in the Elite but my background as Traditional WC. My employer’s definition, based on what your highest earning parent did when you were a teen, would place me in the category entitled to join their development schemes - I haven’t participated.

@Eastangular2000

Sounds like you DH is WC but lives a MC lifestyle. Doesn't make him MC

What do you think singles him out as WC? The fact that his parents (who both died before he reached adulthood) didn’t work?

To be clear he couldn’t care less, but it’s ridiculous to imagine that class is so entrenched as to be fixed. At 40+ he’s spent longer “living a MC lifestyle” than he has anything else.

No one would begin to imagine what his upbringing was like.

I really don't think is true. As a child, yes. As an adult, no.

If you met me as an adult (university educated, professional career, shop at farmers markets, enjoy classical music and the theatre, read "broadsheet" newspapers, listen to R4*) I don't think you'd have any idea that I grew up in a council flat on benefits.

*I appreciate that none of these are things that working class people can't/don't do, but as a package they do tend to signify that you are middle class.

This. People remain the class they were born into for life.

Well done to him for bridging the class divide for his children though, who are, and will always be middle class now. It’s a difficult thing to do, and those who manage it are to be applauded.

All that education and he doesn't even know what social mobility is.

Purely anecdotal, but my very working class family and friends are so much more financially comfortable (in terms of disposable income) than many of DH's very middle class family and friends.
They aren't educated and haven't had professional jobs. But they've been cautious and sensible with money, had modest tastes throughout their lives, and haven't got into debt by trying to keep up with the Joneses.
So as others have said, I think 'low earner' is a better description than 'working class' these days.

My parents were working class but both went to uni and were both in good professions that would be considered middle class.

I didn't go to uni and have always earned at the lower end of the spectrum, I don't consider myself middle class, definitely working class.

I don't think someone who is selling a 1.2 million home can call themselves working class. It's utterly ridiculous.

A lot of folks don’t know what social mobility is , I’m really shocked by the number of folks who think your class is your parents and you remain it for life. They are resounded wrong, horizontal mobility does exist, when you stay the same class for life, but social mobility. Where we move a class from our upbringing I thought everyone understood. There is whole bloody government campaigns on it

That BBC quiz is absolutely rubbish!

I really don't think I'm "elite" just because I like art galleries more than football 🙄

Why do people want to put themselves into boxes? I value people according to their contribution to the community and other's lives. And as for the constant positing of binmen being on the lowest social rung on here. You only had to look at the streets of Edinburgh this summer to show how they're needed.

His lifestyle as an adult is different to how he was raised. The fact he went to university and is now a successful doctor is not from having the advantage of a middle-class upbringing. He lives a different lifestyle now, but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to still identify as working class. You don't get to take that away from him just because he did well in life.

Someone on the other thread said Mike Tindall wasn't working class. He is completely WC

I shop at Waitrose, Sainsbury's and Aldi. Damnitall, I've forgotten who I am and where I come from. Off to bash my head down the nearest wall whilst I indulge in a major identify crisis.

If he’s telling you what he earns he’s certainly not classy that’s for sure.

His dad was a banker and his mum was a social worker

This.

This.

It's a mindset thing.

I agree with OP. I've always thought it's what you are now, not what your upbringing was. I would say I'm from a working class background (dad and grandad both miners, grew up on a council estate) but now I would say I'm middle class. I have a professional job and have a typical middle class lifestyle (even though we aren't high earners, just above average). I think my grandparents would scoff at me if I tried to say I was working class! I haven't forgotten my working class roots but i would certainly feel like a fraud if I tried to claim i was still working class now.

And he went to public school. Working class my arse

I don't know why, but I read this post in the tone of the taunting Frenchman: 'Your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!'

Think I've been spending too much time on this site and some of the whackadoo is starting to affect me 😜

Because doing well in life is harder the more disadvantaged you are. For example, the further down the social class pecking order you are, the less access you have to opportunities that are an advantage. So when someone from the "bottom" does particularly well, they rightly feel proud of themselves.

What an odd thing to applaud a surgeon for.
I'd be surprised if he looks back on his life's achievements and considers obtaining your permission for his children to consider themselves MC to be amongst the most notable.

Your attitudes and values are set by your upbringing, those are hardwired although you can unpick it with thought. Your earnings are a completely different thing.