You're not working class!

[Womeninthesequel]

Ridiculous conversation with an NCT acquaintance - we as a group were discussing the cost of living crisis and it was mentioned that working class families are really going to struggle. He scoffed and said "not all working class families, we're going to be fine." To which I goggled, and said "you're not working class!" He looked cross and said "of course I am, I grew up on a council estate, my dad was a binman."

This is true, he definitely is from a working class background, but he went to university, then med school, is now a senior surgeon doing mainly private practice, he makes six figures (which he'll tell anyone who walks past him) and his house is currently on the market for £1.2mil! He's not working class! This was pointed out to him (not by me) and he was vastly offended. He seems to genuinely believe that his upbringing means he'll always be working class, but that's not right, right? Class isn't innate, is it?

He's a bit of a dick in general, but this has raised a wider conversation at home. DH is from a working class background and is now uni educated and a professional and feels he's now middle class, so is confused by the idea that he's not.

Op you are right he is middle class. A lot of folks find it confusing, but your class is not about your parents but about you as an adult.

This. Class is passed down through the generations. It is just about independent of monetary wealth.

It's really not - your family background is probably the most defining factor.

Ha! I love this.

I'd be interested to know exactly why anyone would take it upon themselves to categorize another human being into a nice, neat 'social class' category, why they'd feel it was their place to do that, and why they end up scratching their heads when another person's perceptions of their own class background doesn't accord with what they think it should be.

The whole British fixation on social class, its nebulous and meaningless basis, the level of snobbery, reverse snobbery, and judgmental attitudes pronounced toward other people because of it, and the amount of anxiety and angst it generates (yes it does, look at all the threads on the variation of the 'you're common, you've got a hot tub theme), is one gargantuan, steaming crock of shit.

Well you did ask, OP.

it doesn’t matter how rich you are, if you grew up a peasant your betters will smell it on you. they might be nice to you, they might even learn to respect you, but you’ll never be one of them.

As the child of working class parents who (through a lot of hard work and some good luck) worked their way up the ladder and became well off enough to send me to private school for secondary, I can confirm this is the case.

What would Kate Middleton be defined as then? Dad MC/UC?, Mum WC, now she's a Princess.

I honestly have no idea how to define Kate's "class."

no it’s not, as Said a lot of folks are confused,

working class,,,waged, non skilled
middle, salaried and skilled, upper educated

lots of nuances in there, but your parents class is theirs, as an adult your class is based on many things. Inc your qualifications, work etc. but the last thing it is is your mum and dad,

I don't think it's as simple as it used to be. I know a guy who does large safety netting projects around industrial builds, definitely working class, definitely on £100k+.

Some people hang on to their history more than others. My earnings are middle class, but like many on here I could tell stories about frozen windows and temperamental immersion heaters.

Certainly wasn't a "ridiculous" comment but you obviously dislike him as you've said.

You make a good point. People really should be able to self identify their social class.
Trouble is, being in a higher social class only carries value if other people are excluded from it, so people will always gatekeep the MC, setting membership criteria that means they personally qualify and others don't.
Its clearly important to the OP for example that wealth and education are the entry passes, whereas other posters are keen to say they're not, going to pains to point out how even their children won't qualify if they're not third generation professionals (like themselves presumably.)

It's not the first thing, but it's not the last either. No one is confused as you "helpfully" put it, especially as that contradicts your previous (and correct) statement about it being nuanced.

I did it for me now: Established Middle Class

Me as a kid: Traditional Working Class

zero hours carer living on a council estate in Cambuslang,
FFS Cambuslang is one of the most middle class areas in the south side of Glasgow. What on earth are you talking about?

I think class and wealth are different. I grew up in a middle class home, however now I'm on a very low income. But I feel my DC still benefit from my middle class background and wealthy grandparents etc. So I'm not sure what we are? I feel middle class but then I also know what it is like to not have money - but for me there is a safety net if I need it (not that I've ever asked my parents for money but I know it is there if I'm desperate and I know I am so privileged to have that peace of mind.)

I was brought up on a very rough council estate in south east London. I've literally got no qualifications as I dropped out of school and just wanted to work!

My parents have a very strong work ethic (manual jobs, ie cleaner).

I originally got a junior level office job in a large, well known, organisation and worked hard. Over the years I've been promoted on numerous occasions and now head up a large department. (I probably couldn't easily move companies as I've no qualifications, just experience).

We have a lovely house and would no doubt be called middle class.

However, I'm proud to be working class.

Realistically, I don't know which I am!

I grew up working class. I still have working class politics and state of mind.

BUT I married into middle class, and would never consider myself working class still! We both have nice, comfortable jobs (not highly paid, as I don't believe its all just about money), own our own home, eat sushi on occasion.

I would say even going to an NCT group makes you pretty middle class! I went to my one NHS class and didn't even consider NCT!

Yes, I also vaguely know a 'working class' lady with a five -bedroom house worth half a million pounds, a second home in a lovely seaside village, combined salary with her husband (whose parents were loaded, whose dad was a vice chancellor) of £130,000. Her workingclassness is based entirely on the fact that her long deceased father was a manual worker. She works in academia, so oppression points for intersectional disadvantage, y'know?

They're loathsome, aren't they? I prefer rich bastards who aren't ashamed of it.

@kiki22 I did the survey and came up as Elite. Hilarious! I am absolutely , totally working class . I have always loved art, theatre, galleries , museums etc and read everything I can though.
My DD is however middle class, due to her excellent career and dedicated studies I would suggest.

I have an extremely lovely very "posh" friend and she always says it is so much more of an achievement for people like the PP's Dr acquaintance to do so well in life compared to people from a more privileged background. Perhaps this is why he wanted people to acknowledge the fact that he considers himself to be working class?

I'm Precariat, wtf is that, mind you that class quiz is 11 yrs old.

I think he’s working class with a middle class life style. I’m from a working class family and DH is very middle class. It means we have some very different values and beliefs. Even though I'm not skint anymore I still feel working class, especially when I’m with middle class people. I feel like an outsider who doesn’t know all the rules.

Has he not heard of social mobility?

Well you’re talking about income, not class? Lower income folk will struggle. I mean on the other hand he might have been born to wealthy posh parents, but made a living as a…I don’t know, binman? Childcare worker? Would that make him working class? 🤷‍♀️

disclaimer: not British

Me too, @Elodie09 ! I think it's mainly based on your interests and your friendship group - apparently having friends across a wide variety of professions is part of the "elite" factor?! I just happen to have met alot of people.

As I'm elite, I'd like to have a cleaner and a personal chef, etc., etc., I definitely can't clean my own toilet anymore. 😂

I don't understand why some people seem to see being 'working class' as some sort of badge of honour.

I think it's very difficult to say who is what really now anyway, I mean neither of my parents went to university but I shop at Waitrose, so make of that what you will.

I grew up in a single parent family who was on benefits.
I by today’s standards would be firmly middle class and I often think about how much my little girl has and is used to compared to what I had. I recognise we live a middle class lifestyle but I don’t feel it. I still remember what it was like to have nothing and don’t take anything for granted.

I would say I still feel working(?) class but providing nothing significant changes my little girl won’t. I’m not sure it’s a good thing having very little gave me the drive to get to where I am today and I am grateful for that, I hope my little one can still do that even with her background.