Worrying about social services

[kiteing]

This will be long, I don't need to go into too much detail but it will be long regardless!

So I left H a year ago with my 3 dcs (1 to H) and moved into my mums house. For the last year I have been sharing a double bed with 2 out of 3 of my children and we have been homeless. Finally been accepted for a house through a housing association but it's not ready yet.

Anyway when I left H, I went straight into private therapy. From there my therapist urged me to contact my local women's aid as they can help with things like housing. So I did and they wrote me a supporting letter to send to my local council and I started having telephone sessions twice a week with them too. During this time, things with H got quite bad and I told them about a few horrible messages he sent to me. My WA worker told me to inform the police in order to try get a non molestation order against him. I did this and the police came over however the took no action due to not enough evidence and basically it wasn't bad enough. They advised me to block H and call the police again if he tries to contact me. I did this and H left me alone completely. I unblocked him a few weeks later as it was affecting our son and wanted to trial contact.

From contacting the police, social services were involved as a precaution - what they always do. They called me and were absolutely lovely. They also called my sons pre school to check if there were any concerns which there wasn't so the case was closed and I haven't heard from them since.

I was then discharged from WA however they were going to refer my daughter (not H child) from some therapy in school as I had mentioned she suffers with low self esteem.

It's been 9 months now since I unblocked H. Like me, he has been in therapy for a year and continues to do so. He had a problem with gambling which he has now stopped and has a fair amount of mow by saved up in the hope to purchase a property with his friend. He is like a different person. Here's where I have to say he was never violent to me, never even shouted at me (except in text form when angry when I left) I left because I felt like I was walking on egg shells and I couldn't cope with the gambling anymore. My own mental health wasn't great and he wasn't there for me at all. He did in fact make it worse so I knew I had to leave him for mine and my children's sake. When I left, he was devastated and had a mental breakdown. The nasty texts were sent in this time and it was a horrible period to look back on.

We are still separated and have no plans to get back together however we want to remain close in each others lives. He really seems to have turned a new lead and I am learning I can rely on him for things. My therapist is helping me with this, she is very pleased at the outcome of H and how he is making a conscious effort to turn his life around. The police rang me not too long ago to ask how things were and I told them how H had been and again, they were very pleased and the case was completely closed with no action taken.

2/3 nights a week, I take 2 of the kids and we go and stay at our old family home. H is there but this is purely to get a good nights sleep. I'm sure you can imagine sleeping in a double bed with 2 children isn't great and the lack of sleep sometimes gets to us. My daughter is 11 and just stared year 6 so I'm really conscious that she gets a good night sleep. H sleeps on the sofa. My eldest child stays with my mum at her house.

We also still do the odd family day out. H has 2 children from previous who I always have and always will be very close too. They still class me as step mum and all our children get so well and think of each other as full siblings. It's very hard to stop all that and it's really nice we can still do it. We went on holiday in the summer as it was booked before I left - my family also came and we had a lovely to holiday (slept in separate accommodation) but it was nice we could still do those things.

This is what I'm worried about - finally I'll get to the point! The therapy that women's aid starts next week for my daughter in school. While my daughter is aware that me and H aren't together and that our new home is purely for me and the kids, I'm worried she may say she still sees H regularly and sleeps at his home. The last time I spoke to WA, I had called the police on him and although no action was taken, I'm so worried that social services may get involved if they think my children are still around what they thought could be a dangerous man?

Like I say, H really has put so much effort into turning his life around. I would never allow my children to be around him if I thought he would be a danger but I'm worried WA may not see it this way. I have no intentions of starting up my marriage again and neither has he. He's viewing houses out of the city we live in to start a new life which I think will be great for him. We both know that when my house is ready, our contact will probably drop and we will become more co-parents but right now, H feels so bad and guilty about everything, he is doing everything he can to make things easier for me and the kids until we are sorted which hopefully won't be much longer.

Sorry I'm rambling - would you say I had anything to worry about?

It doesn't matter if you are actively working with Children's Services - all school has to do is report something and they're involved again. In some ways, it does feel that you aren't 'allowed to get on with your life'

I don't think you have anything to worry about but it's not really true that past involvement doesn't have an effect in the present.

Essentially, either you were swinging the lead back then to get WA help by classing him as abusive, or you're trying to pull the wool over people's eyes now.

Oh if he had a relapse of gambling again while we were not together then I absolutely would take action if it affected my children. I've always been very aware of this and I've spoke with my therapist and WA actually on the actions I would take he ever did hit rock bottom.

His gambling was never at a stage where it left us in debt, no money etc. He also never became angry or agitated when he didn't gamble - meaning the kids didn't see witness anything. It was something he used to sit and do when he came in from work as a release and to mask the issues. I honestly thought when I left that he would lose every penny he had. We had a decent some of money which we split equally and he's still got his plus thousands more saved.

If he relapses and it affects the dc then I'd absolutely take action and do whatever I needed to do. Equally I wouldn't get involved in the actual gambling, it's not my job to save him anymore. I just have to hope that he stays on track.

Please read the full thread. It wasn't WA as such and it was focused on housing.

I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.have I'm just a sad pathetic mother who is massively naive - trying to see the best in everyone. That's what I feel I'm being made out to be. Basically being punished for being happy my husband is seeking help.

It sounds a little like you've already made up your mind because you have a challenge for anyone on here who gives an opinion you don't agree with. But I'll bite anyway.

I think womens aid are very good at identifying domestic abuse and they won't have given you a supporting letter and recommended you contacted the police unless things were bad enough that they felt the situation warranted that - if they just did that for everyone who asked then there'd be no integrity right?

Part of the pattern of domestic abuse involves first an explosion and reaction to you leaving (the threats, nasty messages etc) and then switches to the honeymoon phase "I've turned my life around, I'm in a better place now, I've worked on myself" etc etc to get back in your good books. So I think a lot of posters on here are maybe a little skeptical of your ex for that reason because from where I'm sitting he's in your house and you're back at home part of the week. You've said you have no intention of renewing the relationship but I'd question how much he truly believes that. And that's where the problem lies because if you follow through and he thought there was still a chance you could end up right back where you were with him being nasty etc.

For that reason I'd be keeping clearer boundaries with him. I'll also say this, not all counsellors are trained in dealing with domestic abuse- infact very few of them are. If they don't know what to look for you could see them weekly and they'll miss the signs completely and make inappropriate recommendations as a result. I'd ask your counsellor if they've had the free training from womens aid and if they haven't I'd think twice about how fully they understand your situation because they only ever hear your side and sometimes we subconsciously aim to get a 'kinder' response when we're grieving the loss of a relationship.

But would you take it over a unit that has clear boundaries, where the kids understand what a relationship is and isn't?

There are more options here than the two you've outlined. If you and your ex were living separately, there is no reason why you can't do joint days out or present a United front to the kids.

But they'd be clear that this isn't a relationship. That this isn't what they should look for in their future relationships.

One view from one therapist, everyone will have a different opinion. What matters is your kids and how they feel and perceive the situation.

I have read the whole thread, I commented way back at the start.

Not sure on the point of this really.

Helping each other etc is different to staying overnight when you have previously looked at taking out a non-mol against him and involved WA. You can be nice, supportive etc without intertwining in this way.

Exactly.

Yeah i get that's where I've gone wrong. I do get that and I'll hold my hands up but I've been desperate. My children just haven't been sleeping properly, my son cried constantly thrkigh the night as he either has no room, he's too hot or my daughter as hit him in her sleep. She has terrible eczema - constantly on antibiotics lately as it's become infected so she's restless and scratching away at her skin. My mum is finding doing her work hard as she needs to work from home on a night yet my son using her office as a bedroom. And I'm just sat at the end up the bed utterly exhausted in tears and surrounded by our boxes in a room we can barely move in. I know I've made a mistake in going their to sleep - it's literally at bedtime with our pjs on and straight back to my mums in the morning to get ready for school.

In desperate times I've made the wrong choice. I'll just have to hope if social services do get involved that they can see why I made the decision. Letting my children sleep in a proper bed for a couple of nights a week was doing them good I thought. I hadn't for a second thought that they would be under any sort of danger. My daughter would ask to go more often - she would be sleeping there every night if she could.

It's been a horrible situation to be in, one that is now near the end thank goodness.

If this thread is: do I need to worry about further involvement from ss, then the answer is probably no. The bar for ss involvement is ‘inadequate’ parenting + and both police and ss involvement have made clear children have seen no threats of violence. The bar for early intervention is ‘barely adequate’ parenting- parents who come across ss path because they need help staying above the ‘inadequate’ line.

the bar on mn is v v different- and with good reason- most want to do much better than ‘barely adequate’ parenting.
but most also fall down to that line at some point, in some way.

have you made a healthy decision in going there to get some sleep? Impossible to say- but ss are unlikely to be interested. If they are, they will listen to your reasoning, and judge your ability to manage risk for your children. So why not think about it the way they do-
ask yourself questions like:
has there been any incident or threat of harm (violence or neglect) to the children in this environment previously?
mare there any new risks of that harm in this environment?
as a parent has he previously not managed risk for his children adequately?
if he has not managed that, are you able to parent protectively whilst there with him to adequately protect them?
what have been the benefits to the children of staying there?
(you are v clear on this, and you will generally find ss have extensive experience of managing poverty. And a remit to not intervene where a solution for the poverty will prove effective- the reason both the gp and womens aid wrote those letters, and they were effective in getting you housing is bc poverty is an aggravating risk factor for dv situations and early intervention sometimes avoids dv by dealing with poverty.)
just keep engaging if you come across ss.
you don’t need to guess their intentions- if you are worried ask- ‘if I take x course of action, would you the sw find that to be a risk?’

@Jindle1 Jindle1 yeah I completely understand what you're saying. We are not living with H. Myself and the children have no belongings left there - well our son does with his toys but my eldest childrens belongings are out of the house as are mine. Not that it matters but my name is off the joint bank account, off the bills....off everything pretty much. I'm

My daughter doesn't sleep in her old bedroom - that is now occupied by Hs house mate however there is a spare room with a single bed and that's where she sleeps. The kids absolutely don't look at it as going 'home'. My daughter looks at it as getting a good nights sleep and being able to watch a bit of tv before bed - something she can't do at my mums.

What I'm saying is neither myself or my daughter look at it like 'oh we're going home tonight and staying with dad'. It's more of how tired we are, how the day has gone, a big factor is how my eldest son is and wether he could do with his own space in the room we sleep in.

If I think it's best we have a good nights sleep, we get ready for bed, bathed, pjs on, teeth brushed (myself included) and go over and go straight to bed as it's bedtime when we get there.

However she knows that we are not together and it's into temporary until we have our home. I've always been and will continue to be very honest and open with the kids. They seem happy, we have a close relationship. I've been doing so much more with them since I left to try make sure they are having fun and enjoying weekend etc.

I've gone wrong I know.

I'm sorry you've probably explained this op - why is he occupying the house and you and the kids are just staying there? Why hasn't he moved out and left you all alone? Seeing the children yes, under a contact arrangement that is best for the kids

I agree with the previous poster who said about your own boundaries. Time to put your needs first - this will role model healthy relationships to the kids. Eg/ no you don't need to let an ex kip on the couch cos he has nowhere to go, not your problem. It can be so hard to disentangle from co-dependency but I think that's the area you need to focus on in therapy.

And your not a pathetic mum op, you sound like a great mum in a really hard situation. (I'm a sw btw)

Thank you, I can answer those questions knowing that my kids haven't been under any sort of danger. My son also stays with H on a weekend without myself (which will continue after I move into my new house) and he is capable of looking after his son as well as his 2 other children with no issues. During time when it was awful, he still continued to look after my step children as he normally would. I'd hope social services would take that into account also.

Please don't beat yourself up or feel you have to explain yourself to randoms on here. It does sound like a challenging situation, and perception-wise, particularly given the agencies that are involved, it looks odd.

With the kids, I think I'd be worried about how they'll take the next move/transition. They will now think that this is what having separated parents is like. That's not going to be the case when the moves happen, potentially less time due to travelling, no sleep overs as a family etc. Maybe one to prep for.

This all does sound like you over explaining and justifying a bit too much OP. If everything is as great as you say it is then I don’t even know why you’re posting.

A few reasons really. When I left, I was in a really bad place. I needed my mum to look after me and she took us all in. However at that start I didn't think it would be permanent. The more time I was away, I started therapy etc the more I realised our marriage was over and I wasn't coming back.

H did give me the option to come back and he would leave however we were always made aware that the house would be sold by our landlord (which is Ha best friend, I've always viewed that house as more as Hs than mine) within the next year or at least put on the market. I called my local housing team who actually advised me to stay at my mums. I knew I'd have to leave eventually even if I moved back. The house would be up on the market and I'd be declared homeless which would mean more upheaval for the kids. They said I could stay and put up a fight for as long as I could but ultimately the wait for housing is huge and I'd either have to go back to my mums or go in a hostel - there is no way my eldest son with special needs could cope in a hostel.

Between myself, my mum and the the housing officer, we decided I might as well stay as I am and get on the list for housing now rather than move back knowing I'd only have another year maximum of being able to live there. It would of just added more stress. It just wasn't worth it. I hope that makes sense.

Over thinking unfortunately :-( I'm a massive worrier.

Thank you very much. I'm glad it comes across like that.

H has learnt about co dependancy in his therapy and we can both see how our marriage was. I was giving absolutely everything when I didn't need too (my childhood taught me from my father that was the way to gain love) and H used to just take and take because he was so wrapped up in his own trauma that he couldn't see things any other perspective other than his own. How we lasted so long I have no idea - well I do, it was my doing burning myself down to the ground with no support around me.

I just feel really exhausted and shitty but I can't change anything. By nature I am someone who just sees the best in everyone and genuinely want good things for others. I feel like I'm idiot for being proud of someone I care about and wanting them to do well - wanting my child to have the best version of his dad that he can.

I do feel for you because I’ve been in this situation before and had to live in my Mums living room for a year with my kids. It was very uncomfortable and inconvenient but my children were safe and happy and I was able to properly search for a secure affordable home instead of temporary accommodation. I was warned to not make direct contact after non molestation order was in place. Abusers rarely change their behaviour, they change their tactics.

I couldn't even imagine going into temporary accommodation with my son. It just wouldn't of been possible, he gets a taxi to and from his specialist school each day and there's no way I could of managed the school run for the other 2 children. The temp accommodation was at the other side of the city to where I used to live and where my mum still lives. I am 100% better off at my mums.

I wouldn't of got a non molestation order according to the police on the evidence that I had. This is why they told me block him. If I did that and he ignored my request for him to leave me alone then I could of applied for one on grounds of harassment but he left me completely alone until I was ready to make contact again. They told me the way he would react to me blocking would say it all.

Exactly this
You need to start being honest otherwise nobody will believe you if they think you keep changing your story and update the relevant people he's improved if this is the case

It's really good he's making an effort

@holidaynightmare I'm going to call the social worker who originally called me on Tuesday. I've spoken about it at work today and they think I have nothing to worry about - they are aware of the full story but as it's bothering me so much they think I should make the call.

I also spoke to woman's aid today (actually women's aid, not the charity I that was working with me) who also said I should let social services know but again she advised me I won't have anything to worry about - I am just updating them on what's been happening and it a positive one.

We have our sons birthday party this weekend and I am now actually feeling guilty for hosting it together. Even though he's paid for the majority of it. I feel like I shouldn't even be there. How wrong is that when ultimately my son will have a great time with both mum and dad there, my family, all his siblings and his friends from school/out of school clubs yet I am feeling incredibly anxious about it like I am doing something wrong even being in the same room as H.

@kiteing thank you for explaining, I get it, it makes sense and your making the best out of a bad situation. I'm glad to hear you'll be moving soon too.
I think you're giving yourself a really hard time and you don't need to be, you're doing your best.

I would just make sure there are really clear and firm boundaries in the home, it's great the kids see you getting on, but you don't want to be too friendly with ex or that could give the wrong impression to the kids and be confusing.

Good luck op, and go easy on yourself. It's also not on you whether the kids have a good relationship with their dad, its entirely on him, so try and catch yourself when you feel pulled to 'make something easier' for him - he isn't your responsibility.