To think it's a shame we can't pay our respects

[KeepYaHeadUp]

When we initially heard about the funeral plans DH and I said it might be "nice" to take our DC to London (we're just outside) to walk past the Queen in Westminster Hall. They've been very interested in the whole event and are old enough now that they'll remember it and be able to talk about it, etc. so when they independently asked to go we looked into it.

It quickly became apparent it wasn't going to be feasible due to the huge queues etc, so that was knocked on the head. I feel it's a shame but there's no way I'd have them queuing in the rain.

On the news this morning there are a number of people who's caught flights from all over the world to come and be part of it. One pair - a mother and adult son from New York flew over as soon as they heard the Queen had died and are queuing now.

I know it's unreasonable really, but I felt a pang of something - jealousy, irritation, not sure - at these people with money and time to fly for hours to come and pay their respects to our monarch adding to numbers which effectively deny other groups the opportunity. I know there are allowances made for people with disabilities who are unable to queue for up to 30 hours, but what about children/families for whom it's impossible?

@Chuck2015 Thank you for that kind thought!
I'm getting on now & have hip problems which obviously affects standing & walking. I'm so desperate to be in London but finally (I think!) made my mind up this morning that I need to give my head a wobble & realise I just can't do it - & still feel guilty as I saw an old gent with two walking sticks there on the tv..

Just bad luck that I live in the middle of the country, quite a way from Scotland AND London, although the journey doesn't really matter as much as the standing / walking.
I don't know London well - apologies for my ignorance but would I be able to visit after the Queen's funeral? Will her 'grave' be accessible? Thanks all.

If they let all adults which children go first there would literally be thousands and those without would actually never get through the door. everyone would bring kids in hope of getting through quicker.

Suggestion - 1 adult queues while the other takes the kids off. Then return when closer to front

Omg that's so lovely. Is this some private school?

How on earth is it xenophobic to say priority ought to be given to 1. UK subjects 2. Commonwealth (made up of many cultures) citizens?

I went to Tenerife a few years ago. In the major theme parks and places of interest, they had one fee for indigenous residents and another for non-residents. I didn't begrudge them. Made sense to me. Why do they do it? Money most likely, but also it prevents the locals getting pissed off because they are frozen out of their local areas of leisure and interest. It's called having a balance that respects the indigenous people first.

It's a conversation being had in countries of high tourism everywhere including Venice, Costa Rica and parts of Spain.

The Queen was Queen of England, Wales Scotland and Northern Island and nominal head of state of various other countries. Ordinarily I would say it was right that preference should be given to her actual subjects to see her lying in state.

The only argument that counteracts this is the fact that tourism is often quoted as a justification for the monarchy, as pointed out upthread. So on that basis, let the unaffiliated tourists come. Let them come in their droves for grief tourism. Fine.

Is xenophobia just an easy word to shout out. It's getting worse on mumsnet. I mean by all means use. But please also justify why.

OP, given the vast amount of time and effort you’ve invested in this thread, you could have…. I don’t know…. stood in a queue whilst doing so? 🤔

Not quite sure what you are arguing.

A lot of people want to go - like you do. How do you propose to magically increase the capacity to accommodate all those people without making them queue?

Weird argument. You are wishing that others aren’t wanting to go.

@DysonSphere it is, its a very small school, its mainstream but also specialises in learning support, they are very good with the pastoral style stuff so I wasn't surprised they did this, also helps only about 40 per year group. Some of the teachers are parents also so I suspect they encouraged it plus the organiser is the head of pastoral care for Y10/11 and a history teacher so a vested interest there!

They joined the queue at 345am apparently.

School sounds amazing. Wow. History teacher is obviously that rare breed with real living passion for their subject!

Lol at requiring a 'more child-friendly set up'. This is a tradition-loaded, moribund institution with meaningless protocols going back centuries. You think they're going to wake up and go 'Oh look, we're well into the 21st century and children are now regarded as actual human beings and no longer have to be seen and not heard, let's be more inclusive of them' ?

And you know what? if they did open a fast-track queue for families with younger children then every bugger would drag their small kids out of school so as to get in faster. This would 100% happen.

As for being irritated by 'foreigners' who are coming in and swelling the numbers, sorry. It's not open to UK residents only and nor should it be. They can be arsed to queue for hours or days (and it was never going to be a 30 min wait and then straight in, was it?) and you are not Special, so why can't you? Sorry your young children exclude you from taking part in this charade but that's having small kids for you. I'm just imagining taking my severely autistic son in there. He'd have those candles over, for a start. Lots of us are excluded from perfectly normal activities because our children are disabled. I have to say I'd prefer effective fast-track routes through airports and doctors' surgeries rather than waiting to see a deceased person, but there we are.

Lol at requiring a 'more child-friendly set up'. This is a tradition-loaded, moribund institution with meaningless protocols going back centuries. You think they're going to wake up and go 'Oh look, we're well into the 21st century and children are now regarded as actual human beings and no longer have to be seen and not heard, let's be more inclusive of them' ?

To be fair, they did wake up and realise that people with disabilities are actual human beings too and added an accessible queue and entrance.

i don't think it needs to be more child friendly though.

How old are the children?
mine are 12&14. We “could” do it. But we won’t. We’re midlands, it’d be a faff. To see a box or a glimpse of a procession. We have and will watch on tv and talk about it.
we will mark it locally.

but they could queue. Plan it. Take books, phones, battery packs, pack of cards (with games in mind you can play without a table), picnic - fun easy to eat food, a memory in itself! - that you can pick at to pass the time!

if you’re going to do it the queue is part of the memories!
going at anything with the wrong attitude just leads to disgruntlement! But if you want your children to be telling their grandchildren about it, make the memory.
I pretty sure seeing Churchill wasn’t easy! …. But the negatives haven’t been passed on with the memory (smog, black London, hard shoes, heavy clothes, etc - you’ll be in trainers and modern clothing!)

there’s a reason there’s a long queue, as many others want to do the same thing! Not sure there’s any alternative you can’t ban people from travelling. Apparently the queue is not 30 hours either and the weather forecast is ok this weekend. I personally wouldn’t queue but fair enough if others want to.

Are you for real? It would be ‘nice’ to take your kids to walk past a wooden box? It’s not a day out for heavens sake.

You do realise a lot of people flying in from overseas are coming from other countries where she was their head of state too and have equal right to be there.

But it is accessible, it’s just up to you whether you want to queue or not. You have absolutely no right to be annoyed with the people who have decided to join the queue. If your children are desperate to go, then go, there are loos along the queue. If you can’t bear the thought then go and put flowers in Green Park, or go to London or Windsor on Monday. It’s not meant to be a child friendly activity. It’s an opportunity for those who want to pay their respects or witness history in the making.

In no way was this intentional.

I've got an Irish (South) stepfather and for years he's been quite vocal about hating the Brits, NI etc and I can't honestly blame him as he was followed in the street, had police come to his house in London, was in a separate room at airports being quizzed. He used to have a beard and his surname is one of (unrelated though) to an IRA famous person.

Funnily enough since HRH The Queen died he's dialled it down a lot and he's also watched Derry Girls and laughed at it.

I'm actually pretty ashamed of how little I know about both Northern and Southern Irish history (apart from brief bits about it) but I'm pleased, seeing recent footage on TV re HRH The Queen's passing the respect on both sides for her. Of course you'll get the hard-line Irish and IRA who hate England and HRH The Queen but she's tried to help with possible unification talks, and I think I hope that this happens, and peacefully too.

Having been and queued with lots of other people from different countries for the lying in, I now take back what I said about British etc having priority.

Lots of tourists from other countries queued and waited their turn. In fact I'm proud that someone who isn't part of GB/UK or from the Commonwealth actually respected the Queen so much that they visited from another country, or took time out of a holiday in England etc so they could pay their respects. Shows how much they thought of her.

YABU
The only thing stopping you going is you. Blaming other people, and being jealous of them is bizarre.

OP I think you need to give your head a wobble tbh. You can go but you ate choosing not to. The people in the queue are choosing to go. Not seen many children in that queue for the reasons you are complaining about. My 7 year old would be bored stupid! It's not child friendly because at the heart of it someone died!

I don’t think it’s at all about the wrong people getting in and the right ones missing out. I think it’s all worked out well actually. Those who really want to be there, who are the most enthusiastic monarchists etc will be the ones who are most likely to be willing to spend that long time in a queue. Even if it isn’t comfortable for them.

Maybe they should just sell tickets to the highest bidder!!
For gods sake get a grip

I agree with you
tourists which come from countries where the queen was not head of state are swelling the queues and some are using the event as a tourist attraction Rather than actually to pay respects

I was in London yesterday with my friend, we wandered round Green Park and Hyde Park looking at the flowers, walked down to Buckingham Palace and just generally soaking up the atmosphere. We met people who had been to Westminster Hall and they waited 5.5 hours in a very well organised queue, could leave Q for food, water etc at any time as you are given a wrist band with you Q number on it but its was lovely to just be in London and I’m sure your children would be very happy to do just that 😊

You might wish to go into Windsor Great Park and assemble on the Long Walk on Monday afernoon.

I would like to go but can’t get time off work and have the kids in the evenings. I feel sad that I’m missing out on a major piece of history!

I haven't read the full thread, just the OPs comments. But I have queued and paid my respects to our late Queen.

The queue was longer than I expected and I was one of the early ones. It's only going to get longer now until they close it. I went alone, leaving dependent family at home. I met wonderful people in the queue.

It is possible with compliant children, there were a very few in the queue but they weren't exactly having a fun time. I saw people with walking sticks, elderly people, young people and people from many countries around the world (remember that the Commonwealth accounts for about one third of the world's population). Some people failed to complete the queue and it wasn't the ones you might expect. All were there for their own reasons and while the atmosphere in the queue was surprisingly bouyant, inside Westminster Hall it was universally respectful and solemn. The reasons people will tell for why they went may not match their real reasons, which may be far more personal and vulnerable.

If I had decided on balance that I couldn't cope with the queue I would have visited Green Park or Buckingham Palace. Or perhaps considered coming into London for the funeral or finding somewhere on the route to Windsor to stand.

There's a live queue tracker to help you decide whether the queue length is too much and where to join it. That's the best judge of how long the wait really is.

There's a livestream of the lying in state that anyone can access.

There are books of condolence and churches with opportunities to light a candle for the Queen.

There's an accessible queue starting at Tate Britain for anyone who genuinely cannot queue for long times. There were wheelchair and oxygen users amongst others in that queue as well as those with more invisible disabilities.

Your feelings are valid OP, but your logic is flawed. Don't compare yourself with others, worry only about what is possible and desirable for you and how you can meaningfully pay your respects to our Queen, with or without your children in tow.