to expect people to get their children to vacate seats.

[noonar]

ok, am really not sure what the consensus will be here, so here goes...

dd goes to swimming lessons. there are about 35 children doing classes of different levels. the spectators' are is very hot and cramped. there is v little room for an adult to sit on the floor, and only about 25 seats.

last week, for some reason, there was a large number of siblings watching the lessons with their parents. many of these were occupying a seat. one mum had 2 sons with her. they took up 3 seat. also, a dad let his 2yo have a seat to herself.

meanwhile, i was struggling to keep tabs on my 3yo, while standing, as she edged close to the safety rail between us and poolside.

now, i know children are people too and should be treated with respect but do you think it was fair to allow children to occupy so many seats , in the circs?

Oh, I am much nicer and more reasonable and more forgiving since I found MN . I get to earwig on peoples conversations and learn about life. I find it fascinating.

I don't like the idea of putting children lower in the pecking order just because they are children. If I am out and about with my two and it's crowded I would put one on my lap, but I wouldn't expect the other one to stand unless there was someone obviously infirm or needing a seat (carrying children, preganant or with lots of shopping for example). They are 7 and 8 and standing is not something they find easy. They will either mess about or they will get tired. Children may have lots of energy, but in my experience little stamina. If there is only one seat I would have the children share it and I would stand up.

If I saw someone having problems controlling a toddler I wouldn't immediatly think "what they need is a chair" I'm really not sure why a chair would have helped. But maybe that's because when my two were that age they would not have sat on my lap for any length of time, so I would still have ended up chasing them around.

It was Me [grin.

PW - lolol @ Boden catalogue. And here I've been banging on about good manners and just the other day I was encouraging you to steal from your neighbour. LOL. [happy sigh]

Would definitely expect my kids to stand up and offer their seats to an adult. My older two (12 and 10) would probably do this anyway without me nagging, 6 year old wouldn't but would happily sit on my lap if asked. Lots of differing points of view here but in my opinion, this shows good manners and respect. It is how I was brought up and is how I have raised my children.

Only skimmed the thread, but tbh I'd rather my ds got to sit down than me (although he'd probably perch on my lap) - and I definitely would rather he had a seat than some random adult. Anyone who tried to turf him out of his seat could absolutely jog on, too!

If the children don't stand up for adults they should be smacked IMO

I agree that the younger child should have been put on a lap but with regards to the older children I think they were just as entitled to a seat as you,children should be offered the same respect as adults and to say that they are not entitled to a seat just because they are children is ridiculous.
( ok I know you will eat me alive for that comment)

It's basic courtesy and consideration, isn't it? Truly can't believe that there are children being brought up not to stand up. Are they allowed to throw litter on the ground as well?

I remember once being with a friend who though outwardly looks beautiful and the picture of health, suffers with MS and finds standing tiring.

It was on a tube actually. There were two youfs (@14?) sitting and I asked them to stand up. They looked gobsmacked. Totally surprised that anyone should be so quaint. I wondered if they were going to knife me. But they stood up like lambs ...

only read first and last page
never ever occured to me to get my kids to stand up so random adults could sit in their seats. cannot for the life of me understand why they should, are they less important than adults or something then? why is that basic courtesy and consideration if adults don't stand up for children as well? sounds more like servility to me.
obv if I can squish them onto my lap so someone else can sit down, I would.
I would, however, set an example to my children on the bus/train by standing up for the elderly/disabled/pregnant but I wouldn't expect them to until they were older cos it's dangerous for kids to be standing up on moving buses.

Totally agree with you, Quattro, its just basic manners, isn't it? I teach my ds to stand up for adults, open doors, etc, the same as his dad does, and it doesn't mean he's a pushover or feels lower down on the spectrum to an adult. It means he has fantastic manners, something that is commented on by many, many people.
One of the things that attracted me to dh (apart from the fact that he's bloody gorgeous ) was him holding doors for me, helping me with my coat etc, just little things but they mean loads. And to any feminist who is at this moment retching, I'd say I'm no little woman at home but I love being spoiled!!{grin]

That should be , not (grin]

I don't see it as asking children to stand while adults sit. And I wouldn't expect ym young children to stand on a bus or train.

But I think children are more comfortable squatting on the floor than the average adult. So I would expect my ds to sit on the floor and give up his seat to an adult, in preference to an adult standing/sitting on the floor.

It's got little to do with who is more important.

Quattro, the comparison between dropping litter and not standing for adults is unhelpful imo. One is about basic comfort (and why should an ordinary, able-bodied adult should automatically be more entitled to this than a child? And they're not in my book), the other the a sign of laziness/disrespect for surroundings etc etc.

Thinking of this quite abstractly, all other things being equal why is an adult more entitled to a seat than a child? I really don't see the logic.

I actually disagree I think. I would expect my girls to stand up for elderly people on the bus, or pregnant women, or a parent with a very small child. But in a situation like you describe, I feel less certain that children should have to move for an adult; as a parent, I'd want my children next to me tbh, rather than on the other side of a glass panel or wherever. If they were there first, in this instance I think they deserved to stay there.

I think respect for adults comes into it, imo. And yes, I know some adults are awkward tossers who don't deserve to have respect shown to them because they don't show any back blah blah blah but that's the way I was brought up ans that's the way I bring my ds up.
Saying that, I aleays watch to see if the adult he's holding the door for says thankyou and if they don't I've been known to say something (depends if the PMT is kicking in!)

I suppose I shouldn't be amazed that so many parents don't move their children for adults, since this is a huge bugbear wherever we go.

We went to an outdoor band concert a few years ago, at a castle, and there were only 2 rows of chairs. Lots of very elderly people were around and yet the few families who'd "got there first" had spread themselves out, with all their children having a chair each (and looking bored stiff).

I was always the person sat on the floor or standing, but since I turned 40 I have found that I am not physically able to stand for long periods of time anymore. After a long day at work there is no way I would be able to stand on the bus. Of course a woman in her 50s or 60s is going to turf a child out of a seat- I would too if I was bolshie enough. I didn't appreciate when I was younger that everything changes when you get older- your legs and back ache.

It always makes me when people make these judgements about "able bodied adults, who aren't pregnant" as if being pregnant is the only time you need any consideration. As a pregnant 22 year old I was more capable of standing than as a non-pregnant 44 yo.

Dullwitch, with you on WHen we were growing up the adults set the agenda, now the kids do. Can't help feeling we somehow missed out.

Hello quattro. Have you read my eloquent posts below or can you not be arsed?

I can't decide whether this thread is:

a) a fascinating illustration of social mores and attitudes towards childhood, or
b) a bunch of crazy women obsessing over something utterly insignificant when they should be doing something more productive.

Both, policywonk!

Sorry policy...late to the party as usual.

I think it's about power tbh, not about 'kids setting the agenda/rules'. An unspoken but really quite vicious and ugly (when you look closely at it) assertion of power over those who are too little, inexperienced etc. to resist. Ugh.
And it's all a bit Victorian, too, seen and not heard kind of crap about children.

(Therefore this thread is obviously option B masquerading as option A)

Everyone has their own opinion, obviously, but I truly don't consider asking my ds, aged 12, to stand for an adult to be a power thing, just as I said, a manners thing.

Will read your eloquent posts very soon - sorry - still at work - will think up scintillating rebuttal which will bring you to your knees - it'll involve a causal link between parents failing to make their children stand leading to teenage vandalism and hooliganistic behaviour, leading to ASBOs ... "there's no such thing as society" and "I am no respector of persons", ... anarchy and civil disorder.

I get the logic and reasoning behind giving up a seat for an elderly person, a pregnant woman, or someone obviously in a bit of a pickle. I wouldn't do it myself because I'm cold hearted bitch unable to stand too long myself. But any adult, just by virtue of them being an adult, I don't get.

Besides, I'd be more inclined to have it as something my children decide to do for themselves, really, in terms of self-sacrifice. Giving something up is always a little nicer if it's you that's decided to do it.

Having said all that, this is entirely hypothetical for me, because in all instances where this has been relevant, my eldest has given up her seat of her own volition.