To tell you why the title ‘Prince of Wales’ is an historical insult to the Welsh and shouldn’t exist anymore

[Upthebracket22]

I am Welsh. I was enraged yesterday when the new king decided to ‘bestow’ the title on Prince William, an English Prince without asking the Welsh if they wanted another English Prince of Wales.

here is some historical context from a petition going around at the moment:

The "Prince of Wales" title (Welsh: Tywysog Cymru) is a title historically used by native, Welsh princes since the 14th century. The last native Prince of Wales was Llywelyn the Last, killed by English soldiers in 1282 and his head was then paraded through the streets of London and placed on a Tower of London spike. Llywelyn's brother Dafydd was the first person of note to be hung, drawn and quartered and his head was placed next to Llywelyn's. Both their daughters were taken as infants and children and imprisoned.

But this happened centuries ago you might say. The truth is, that since the days of Llywelyn the Last and the "rebel" Prince of Wales, Owain Glyndwr, the title has been held exclusively by Englishmen as a symbol of dominance over Wales. To this day, the English "Princes of Wales" have no genuine connection to our country.

The title remains an insult to Wales and is a symbol of historical oppression. The title also implies that Wales is still a principality, undermining Wales' status as a nation and a country. In addition, the title has absolutely no constitutional role for Wales, which is now a devolved country with a national Parliament.

As Welsh actor, Michael Sheen put it;

"Make a break there. Put some things that have been the wrongs of the past right. There's an opportunity to do that at that point. Don't necessarily just because of habit and without thinking just carry on that tradition that was started as a humiliation to our country. Why not change that as we come to this moment where things will inevitably change."

I don’t think many people have any concept of Welsh history. I find it offensive and think now would have been a good moment to right a historical wrong.

Yet more anti-English bigotry from certain parties.

This really is starting to sound like the Brexit debate.

Tell me @herecomesthsun is Capel Celyn the only drowned valley in the U.K. or was is part of a National wide effort to provide clean drinking water for cities and prevent needless deaths from drinking fouled water?

Exactly the same as Derwent. Nobody picks their house to be under compulsory purchase for a reservoir, a train line, a motorway, nor any other civil planning initiative.

Brexit is a bit of a non sequitur.

I merely provided some information here and a point of information about Liverpool City Council.

I do remember my Nain being quite angry about Capel Celyn. My mum grew up on a farm quite near Bala.I think they felt that the local people had been used rather badly.

That is also the perspective in the exhibition in the Welsh National museum.

I can't really comment on national water policy, I'm afraid, but the Capel Celyn business was seen as shockingly awful in Wales.

No @herecomesthsun

You presented this as Welsh water going to supply English people at Welsh expense. The nationalistic emphasis was yours.

It is bigotry. You’ve decided you hate the English (for whatever historical reasons) and you have drawn a line (No Welsh water for England).

All the need to do now is utter the phrase ‘take back control and you’ll be exactly like the anti EU lot.

@Legrandsophie it's not bigotry to point out the many bad things the English have done as the dominant UK nation - it's facts. Deal with it

I say all this as an English person.

That... doesn't make any sense @Legrandsophie .

However, it is really fascinating that people are coming on here to defend Capel Celyn. That is so amazing, I have never heard it discussed, in my family or in the press, as being anything other than a terrible tragedy, for which Liverpool Council eventually apologised & etc.

And some of you are standing up for it and you think it was a good idea?

Abolish the monarchy.

Just to balance it out. Do not demolish the monarchy.. I love the Royal family. So do millions of others judging by this week.

Or alternatively, hold fire on the monarchy and have a little consultation on the Tywysog title.

How many years is it since the late Queen died, 3 or is it 4?

Not there ever has been an official anthem, but that verse has always been an unofficial addition, never in widespread use - to the extent that I'm not aware of any contemporary written sources, the only source I'm aware of was from 91 years after the Jacobite Rebellion, and was described then as "stored in the memory of an old friend". The standard version has always had three verses.

Commemorative medals to mark the last two jubilees. Not rare, about half a million of each handed out in the UK alone, never mind the Commonwealth.

No one is defending the reservoir. People are saying that it should not be used as an excuse for Anglophobic bigotry.

You presented this as Welsh water going to supply English people at Welsh expense. The nationalistic emphasis was yours.

But Welsh water did go to supply Liverpool and the Wirral at the expense of Welsh people’s homes and livelihoods and the final resting places of their loved ones.

Liverpool Council later apologised for the drowning.

Tell me @herecomesthsun is Capel Celyn the only drowned valley in the U.K. or was is part of a National wide effort to provide clean drinking water for cities and prevent needless deaths from drinking fouled water?

No, it’s not - when the water is low in Ladybower reservoir, near Sheffield, people can see the remains of the drowned church and village.

Exactly @TheSummerPalace thank you.

I am very much disappointed to see posters with a Welsh nationalistic attitude just brush away the same things that happened in England as to the Welsh as unimportant. because fuck the English, right. They brought it on themselves.

It's good then, that no one is saying that (except you)?

Abingdon was supposed to have a reservoir but now they're talking about bringing more water from Wales across the country because the SE needs it

inews.co.uk/news/environment/oxfordshire-before-drought-politicians-argued-abingdon-reservoir-not-needed-1794727

nation.cymru/news/work-already-begun-to-transfer-water-from-wales-to-drought-hit-england-says-national-infrastructure-boss/

Water from Wales to England again 🙄

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11109579/Could-Great-Boris-Canal-fix-Britains-water-woes-Tories-call-review-plan.html?ito=native_share_article-top

Northumberland another source for the SE

Capel Celyn wasn’t drowned to supply drinking water. It was for industry. It was then used for drinking

If the people of Wales think this is an insult I think it is extremely arrogant for other nationalities to tell them they are wrong!

There are loads of reservoirs in wales than send water to England and help control flooding, Vrynwy, Elan Valley, Clewedog and many more. What people forget in that Wales was invaded by the French (Norman’s who perhaps were once Vikings) not Anglosaxons (English) because they were also invaded and conquered by the French. Wales would not have some of our lovely castles without them! Also, many lovely towns were built, people (men) were made freemen and towns given land and many people benefitted from these new structures and the ability to trade freely. What I see in Wales today though are people reinventing the past “worrying the carcass of an old song” as R.S Thomas would say. It has always been the masses oppressed by the privileged few wherever you live in the United Kingdom.

And the “people of wales” are more bothered about getting the medical care and education they need rather than anything else. I see a divided Wales. The money is all in South Wales, a bit up North and the middle is devoid of a hospital, safe medical care where people have to put seriously ill relatives in cars to travel 40 miles to get inadequate care in the nearest English hospital. The people who want independence should be fighting for basic safe medical care.